My truck full of new forges! And a few questions there-about....

[Twilight Fenrir]

Well, calling it a truck full makes it sound like a bunch, when, in fact, it is only two. But they really do take up pretty much the whole truck, as one of them is GINORMOUS!

The big one is pretty much in perfect working order. I need to make a tube to go from the blower to the inlet on the forge, but otherwise it is complete, the blower turns nicely, and the forge itself is in good (enough) repair. It has a Midway Spiral gear blower from Champion Blower and Forge, which mounts to a big bracket. Appears to have been a commercially built forge. (Sorry, I don't have much in the way of pictures of it, I pretty much set straight to work on the smaller forge, which needed some TLC)

Here they are in my truck, a full size long box pickup :P They really do take up most of it, combined.



So, like I said, I pretty much started tearing into the smaller one immediately after getting it home. The crank was seized and didn't move. Though, the blower portion DID turn freely. So I just popped out the pinion shaft, took it to a wire wheel, put some gear oil on it and the crank shaft, and it turns like it did back in the early 1900's! :D




The only real problem is here... The mounting flange has a chunk broken off of it where one of the ears to connect it to the fire pot are. There are 4 holes in the flange, and only two in the forge, so I COULD just drill two more holes, and mount it with three bolts, avoiding the broken one, but that would let air through instead of pushing it through the coal. My question is, would brazing survive that close to the fire pot? I can barely weld steel right now with my arc welder, (Having a hard time starting the arc, but then it goes well enough when I manage to) I can't imagine trying to tackle cast iron...




One more question: The fan assembly seems to fit into lead bearings on either end. If I were to replace these, would I pour the lead into the housing, then insert the shaft? Or assemble the fan in the housing, and pour the lead in from the outside? (Obviously preheat the housing either way to have some work-time) Then drill the weep hole out so it can be oiled like the rest of the forge. I've never worked with this kind of setup before... Seems pretty simple though...



Also, how do I go about making a new belt? The old leather strap is in two segments, secured with small wire like staples bent together. I'm guessing there's more than one piece so you can pull them in for an overlap, secure them, and cut off the excess? Is there any particular material I should use, or can I just go to walmart and buy a cheap leather belt, making sure it's actually leather :P Then what is used for lacing? Just bits of metal wire like on the original? Or is there a better way?

Thanks!

Richard

[rudeawakening55]

  A rein from a harness works great & then use a belt lacing with wire so you don't have to over lap.

[mvwcnews]

The soft metal bearings are likely Babbitt alloy -- doing those right gets you into the realm of working Babbitt, and bearing scrapers.

[Twilight Fenrir]

The soft metal bearings are likely Babbitt alloy -- doing those right gets you into the realm of working Babbitt, and bearing scrapers.

Gotcha, leave well enough alone *sage-nods* :P The fan spun freely as-found, so i won't mess with it. Other than I think I'll put the hole through them where the oiling holes in the cast iron were, so it can be lubricated.

[john k]

Two forges, did you find them or buy them?   I have run that large size forge up over $200 a couple of times.   I'd really like to find one to use.   It seems big but other than for small craft items it has been too small a number of times.   It probably has some small mounts under the sides where the cut away is.  If it does I can tell you what they are for.  That cut away is sweet for heating long irons, get them down in the fire better.   The small one is handy, is generally referred to as a rivet forge.  Great to start out with but gets small in a hurry.  Good for knife making though.   The missing fire pot is called a tuyere, still available, good ones have an ash cleanout.    One thing you cannot do with these is make a wet coal slurry to make an oven, water and hot cast iron just don't go together.    Have seen bad things happen, so it takes an extra step.   These will draw you away from that roaring gas forge, for sure. 

[Twilight Fenrir]

Two forges, did you find them or buy them?   I have run that large size forge up over $200 a couple of times.   I'd really like to find one to use.   It seems big but other than for small craft items it has been too small a number of times.   It probably has some small mounts under the sides where the cut away is.  If it does I can tell you what they are for.  That cut away is sweet for heating long irons, get them down in the fire better.   The small one is handy, is generally referred to as a rivet forge.  Great to start out with but gets small in a hurry.  Good for knife making though.   The missing fire pot is called a tuyere, still available, good ones have an ash cleanout.    One thing you cannot do with these is make a wet coal slurry to make an oven, water and hot cast iron just don't go together.    Have seen bad things happen, so it takes an extra step.   These will draw you away from that roaring gas forge, for sure.

I bought them both off a local auction site... I paid $35 for the big one, and $50 for the little one... and... no, I didn't mix up those prices >_>

The big one does indeed, on either side of the back notch, have two pegs with holes in them, apparently a pivot for something... I was wondering if at some point this had a closeable lid to make it into a work bench when not forging... which would be handy, actually, given its size. I might fab up such a lid, if only to protect it in the winter, because it's big enough that it's going to have to live outside for now ^^; Or, is it for something else? Please do enlighten me!

The little rivet forge I picked up to be portable. Something I could take with me to reenactments when I eventually get to that level. There aren't any parts missing on it, I just had it apart before I thought to take a picture of it :P I was pretty eager to tear into it... You can see the grate in the picture of it in my truck. The little built in blower has an ash clean out in it. Will have to keep on top of that though, not a lot of capacity, and it will dump right into the blower in no time. Just have to empty it after every use I guess. The bowl, and the grate are pitted pretty badly here and there, but I gave it a few taps with a screwdriver and a hammer, and didn't punch through anywhere, seems like there's still enough metal left for it to be usable.


Oh, I won't be using these coal forges as my primary tools :P I like my little gas forge too much. The big one will be if I need big stuff, and the little one is more period correct for the Fur Trader Rendezvous. I can't use either of these coal forges in my garage, the sulfur from burning coal would eat my '66 Oldsmobile Toronado... and everything else :x Gas forge is easier, safer for my belongings, and more controllable as far as on-off goes :P When I get a separate building in which I can do my forging? Who knows... Might just turn to that behemoth as my primary forge... But, with all the blacksmiths I know who have had lung cancer, or similar lung problems... I'm gonna try to stay away from using coal quite so much. I like the romance of working with it, but propane is one of the few concessions I'll make to modern technology in my smithing... That, and a power hammer, when I can wrangle one up >:3 But, those are mostly 100-ish years old, so... not technically modern!

[john k]

Ah good, your forge does have the little brackets.   These are for extension "legs".   Imagine something similar to an outfeed table on a table saw.    These are made of 3/8 dia. steel rod.   Bent into nearly a square.   The 4th side is nearly missing.   Each side should be the width or the brackets, say 14 inches on a side.  This is made to swing up, with another rod acting as a brace or leg.  This rod pivots on the square frame, on the side away from the forge.    Anyway,  insert the two chopped off ends  of that 4th side, into the brackets, pin them in place with cotter pins.   This is just real handy when working with something long, holds the cold end up so the hot end stays in the fire.   When not needed, just kick that brace leg in and it folds down out of the way.  There may be have been a water trough hanging on the front of that forge too, about where that bit of orange tape is.   About 4x6 x the width of the forge, for quick quenching.   I prefer a water barrel, doing big stuff it even gets warm on a busy day.   The sulphur smell from coal is noxious, and annoying.   However if you can (cook) the coal out of doors, turn it into coke, you will find coke puts out very little smoke. 

[Twilight Fenrir]

Ah good, your forge does have the little brackets.   These are for extension "legs".   Imagine something similar to an outfeed table on a table saw.    These are made of 3/8 dia. steel rod.   Bent into nearly a square.   The 4th side is nearly missing.   Each side should be the width or the brackets, say 14 inches on a side.  This is made to swing up, with another rod acting as a brace or leg.  This rod pivots on the square frame, on the side away from the forge.    Anyway,  insert the two chopped off ends  of that 4th side, into the brackets, pin them in place with cotter pins.   This is just real handy when working with something long, holds the cold end up so the hot end stays in the fire.   When not needed, just kick that brace leg in and it folds down out of the way.  There may be have been a water trough hanging on the front of that forge too, about where that bit of orange tape is.   About 4x6 x the width of the forge, for quick quenching.   I prefer a water barrel, doing big stuff it even gets warm on a busy day.   The sulphur smell from coal is noxious, and annoying.   However if you can (cook) the coal out of doors, turn it into coke, you will find coke puts out very little smoke.

Oh yeah... Duh XD I was For some reason, I assumed the other side was the front, but those little brackets would be on the front. I have something similar I made for my gas forge. Welded a couple tubes on the underside of the forge, with a small rack that pulls out with an adjustable height to hold long pieces in it as well...

As for the water trough... that would explain the mysterious holes in the side of the forge, just beneath the lip! I was wondering why one side had them, but the other didn't... pretty clever... That, however, is missing.

I don't have a setup for water quenching just yet, kind of been using a big kettle so far... But I've got an antique 10 gallon oil can, (Think milk can, but more awesome) that I've got with vegetable oil in it for oil quenching. Eventually I'll have 3 or 4 different quench containers for water, oil, transmission fluid, and super-quench...

[bear_man]

I've also known those small forges to be called "shoeing forge" or "farrier's forge" and long ago knew a farrier who travelled around with and used one.  Stock shoes are too-often not a perfect fit for a horse and a master farrier would want to preserve the strength of the shoe, only working them hot.

[john k]

Here is near the same type of large forge, you can see how handy the cut outs in the side  make long things fit better.

[keykeeper]

Good advice from John K on the work supports. Very handy.

Best quick solution I have found for connecting the blower to the tuyere is 3 inch aluminum flexible dryer vent. Easily found in any large box store like Lowe's or Home Depot. Won't rust, easily routed to connect them together.

Good score on the prices, BTW. You must live in blacksmith tool heaven!!

[Twilight Fenrir]

Whew... I just managed to get the forge out of my truck... Unfortunately, I can't seem to move it from the unloading point, 3 feet to where I want to keep it for now by myself XD It would probably be easier if I pulled all the bricks out of it... buuuut.... I'll go through an incredible amount of work to avoid doing small amounts of work. Just a crossed wire in my head :P Perhaps it's just 'the challenge'

I don't know about blacksmith tool heaven... but, it is surprisingly easy to find a lot of smithing things 'round here once you know what to look for. The only things I really CAN'T find, are anvils, and hammers, oddly. At least, not the specialty hammers. I could fill my truck box with ball pein hammers in a day, if I really wanted to :P

I swear, Minnesota probably has the largest per-capita of blacksmiths anywhere in the country. At least, with as many people say they know/knew a guy who used to do it. Kind of makes sense, given the history of our area. 70% of domestic iron ore comes from Minnesota. The only reason people are even up here, is to work in the mines, or provide services to people in the mines.

Anywho, since it's out, here's a few pictures!

The forge is 38" wide, and 31" deep, brick lined, made out of probably 3/16" ish plate steel.


Down beneath, it has a little lever that operates a baffle, as well as having a cleanout, which is currently filled with growing moss... (Will clean out soon :P)


There is raised lettering around either side of the cast iron piece in the middle. Once splashed with water, one side says:
"Champion Blower & Forge Co."
"(illegible characters)"



The other side, reads:
"No. 400 Pat. (Illegible characters)"
"Whirlwind Blast"


So, it seems it will make a nice companion to my No. 400 Forge Blower, once I finish rebuilding it! :D

Oh, also, here's the blower that came with it. Cranks and works magnificently. Mounts to the big arm that comes out of the side of the forge. Also a Champion Blower & Forge (Gosh, I'm starting a collection here! Between my two blowers, forge, and drill press!) A Midway Spiral Gear.

[john k]

Nice equipment.   On the other blower that has a piece broken from the mounting neck, here is what I would do.   Cut two pieces from 1/4 in. plate or thicker,   Sort of make a sandwich with the broken part in the middle as the filling.    3 bolts in the perimeter to hold it together.   

[rusty]

"No. 400 Pat. (Illegible characters)" "Whirlwind Blast"

(Edit: Now that I have blown up the photo, it says 408)
(I see someone in another thread pointing out the casting number in the tuyre etc isn't definitive for the forge overall..)

[keykeeper]

Champion No. 400 Whirlwind Blast....I have the same firepot in my forge. Should have a pendulum sort of thing that will engage the bottom slot on either side and clean out the clinker. The middle one?...noting to clean it, at least on mine. The cleanout on the bottom of mine slides side to side to allow clinker and ash to fall out below.