What kind of strange blade is this?

[scottg]

 So Bob, I have been digging though your exceptionally nice website all morning.
Holy Mackerel!  I love it!
 But I am even more confused than ever.

 I can usually guess at what would constitute an effective tool for my needs. Then hopefully only slight modifications are needed for superior performance. But I am seeing so many possible patterns and sizes my head is spinning.
  I am still thinking around 10" or so of very heavy blade, but the amount and degree of hook I simply can't estimate? I see them from 1" to many inches of offset from the straighter part of the blade? Tight, nearly 90 degree curve, to wide sweeping 1/3 of the blade length hooks? 
 
   I did see one possible project for you. This blade with the bad handle?  I am not sure if you know it, but I make tools for a hobby. Mostly decorated tools. No, I won't make you a super fancy pearl inlaid handle like the museum specimens.
  Well actually I can, but not to trade for a couple of old plain blades. :)  heh heh
   But I can rehandle it very nicely if you like. Then you would have to age it to your tastes.
 
 I also have a small stash of unusual antique kitchen tools and gadgets. (I collect a lot of different things, never could concentrate on a single category) 
  Easiest way to a man's soul is to find a treasure for the wife, so she will encourage later endeavours... heehehehehe   
      yours Scott

[Billman49]

Sadly that nice decorated blade is sitting in an Italian museum, not my collection.... It's shape is similar to the billhooks of the West Country of the UK - large beaks are found on Devon and Dorset patterns. Personally I find a 9" medium weight hook adequate for my needs, although I do also use a 10" from time to time (generally whatever hook is lying to hand and is sharpened and ready to go...). I'll try and get into my shed this week and sort some blades out and take some photos... The UK military hooks are probably the heaviest pattern readily available - personally I do not like them, but it all depends upon a) what you are cutting and b) how long you are using it c) your hand size d) your strength....

Very pleased that you like the website - it's there to pass on information - after 40 years of collecting I have a wealth of knowledge tucked away in my head and my archives - best to share it while I still can....  I also collect many things - the magpie effect.... Back in the 70's I bought an old chapel to convert to a house, and needed building/carpentry tools, so I used to go to the local auctions and buy anything and everything - I have tools for all trades, and have built an extension on the house we now live in - all my own work except the plastering ( I can do it, but am too slow). Also having served an engineering apprenticeship followed by 40 years of teaching craft and design (wood, metal, plastics, etc) and I have a lot of kit.... I also have collected oilcans (gave them to a French friend who collects), corkscrews, tin openers, bottle openers and nutcrackers - and my wife is into kitchenalia and also collects 'cream and green' enamel ware, button hooks and baskets.... Not only is the house full, so are all  my sheds and garages - hence building a new one at the moment... We really ought to downsize.... or at least get rid of the hevaier stuff - tractors, stationary engines etc....

[rusty]

> We really ought to downsize.... or at least get rid of the hevaier stuff - tractors, stationary engines etc....

hah!, I know a lady that collects pianos, not miniature ones, not the small bar room specials, full sized ton and a half pianos....from one end of the house to the other....

[Branson]

I found an Ordnance Department drawing of the bill hook they issued from 1849 and at least through the Civil War.  A bit oddly shaped from what I have seen before, but here it is.  To the left of the side view is a sectional view, showing the thickness to be .25 inches.

Now to find one!

[Billman49]

Superb - many thanks. It shows a typical turned handle (double edged bills always have a round handle so it can be turned in the hand to use the back blade - a caulked handle would be uncomfortable - and unsafe- to use) - this one grooved for grip (like a butcher' cleaver - rarely found on billhooks), a 1" long ferrule and an overlong handle at 7 1/2" (standard size in the UK is 6").

Double edged hooks like this are known as broom hooks, are are common in the Midland's counties of England (Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire, Nottinghamshire, Shropshire, Staffordshire and Yorkshire). This particular pattern however, has more in common with French and Italian tools than English ones, as the back blade is closer to the tip of the tool..

[Billman49]

For comparison some Italian models:

[Billman49]

Scott, have dug out my box of unhandled blades and photographed some of them. Will download and post when I have a few more minutes to spare..

[Billman49]

Finally...

[oldtools]

WOW! what a collection!!

[scottg]

Oh this is so weird.
 How did you know I was carving handles today?
Here I am carving octagonal handles by hand.
 Sure I can do it by machine and make them perfy perfect, but today I wanted real hand carved like you can't fake with machines.
   
 Bob, these blades?
 They --all-- look great to me from here!
    yours Scott

[oldtools]

Nice work! Hand carved for what tool?

[Billman49]

Most (but not all) single edged UK billhooks tend to have a caulked handle, i.e. assymetrical, with an offset to prevent it slipping out of the hand. Double edged ones usually have turned, round handles, as the handle needs to be able to be used with either blade. Octagonal handles like the ones you've made, Scott, are often found on carpenters' firmer chisels - and on billhooks from the Balkans, especially those from Croatia... see: http://billhooks.co.uk/edge-tool-making-and-makers/handles/

[scottg]

  Calked handle?  Nice name.  Quick and simple. I like it. 
It would be called a pistol grip handle here. Same meaning, extra words, baaaaaaaaad.... heeheh
 In an ax they call it a fawns foot, the offset knob to keep the tool in your hands.
 But that is a slightly different shape.
 
 Carving a billhook handle would only mean leaving one side thicker at the end.
Make a hook to catch your hand out of it, so it won't slip as easy.
  When you are freehand carving you can bend a whole handle a little if you want, or make it straight as a string.  I could do a swelling right in the middle. Anything I want.   
 
  The handles I made yesterday are for a vise. I am making a vise to hold vertical work, like for dovetailing etc.
 Actually I am re-making the vise.
  I built the original 40 years ago. My first woodworking vise, ever! When I moved I saved the hardware, and still had it laying around.    I decided it was finally time to put it back together and get back to using it. I have missed it on occasion.   
 I am updating it some. Of course, heh.
        yours Scott