rust removal

[1930]

I had mentioned some time ago about lysol toilet bowl cleaner being the best that I have found and got no response, maybe no-one believed me or maybe no-one cared but  soaked these before I went to work this A.M, you can see how heavily rusted this was, so rusted that the bottom is nearly gone, just a few hours later and it all gone. Maybe some of you other guys have tried this maybe not.
Only thing I would warn is dont leave it too long, thise vacuume canister had a pot metal sediment bowl attached to it, thanks it wasnt original because it is no where no how to be found, just eaten up and gone.
I did that wrench also, I figured what the hell, clean as a whistle, little rust at the end is from my wet fingers touching it, I will get it to where there is a  nice thin rusty coating and then wipe it down with an oily rag, I am thinkin that will give a pretty good look to it

[rusty]

> just eaten up and gone.

Not just pot metal, almost any metal when in contact with a dissimilar metal, in any water based solution with a caustic, acid, or salt, will form a short circuited battery and eat up the more active metal.

I would remind folks that bowl cleaner, and other strong substances can have unexpectedly violent reactions with some materials, be carefull folks : )

[Papaw]

I will try it out- with CAUTION!

[Frank]

Hanging out on old car and tractor sites I have heard of several methods but this one is rather new to me. I'm guessing the ingredients have sodium hydroxide? (lye)

Methods I have heard...
Soaks:
mixture of dried molasses & water
vinegar
electrolysis

Oven cleaner and hose off with water

All of the above can destroy non-ferrous metals. For non-ferrous metals like a carb,  I have heard Pine-sol works great but I have not tried it.

[Aunt Phil]

Hanging out on old car and tractor sites I have heard of several methods but this one is rather new to me. I'm guessing the ingredients have sodium hydroxide? (lye)

Methods I have heard...
Soaks:
mixture of dried molasses & water
vinegar
electrolysis

Oven cleaner and hose off with water

All of the above can destroy non-ferrous metals. For non-ferrous metals like a carb,  I have heard Pine-sol works great but I have not tried it.

And therein lies one of the problems with old tractor sites;
INCORRECT INFORMATION ABOUNDS!

Molasses is a chelation process and contains trace levels of phosphoric acid.  Phosphoric will dissolve aluminum.  It will NOT harm pot metal or babbit.

Electrolysis is actually a misnomer for the process of electroplating rust from an object onto a sacrificial electrode.  It is probably the best process for rust removal as it stops functioning when the rust has been removed WHEN the process is operated properly.  The process has been well developed by a few people who have achieved the state of a tank that runs 24/7 without needing to stop for electrode cleaning and has no scum layer on top of the electrolyte..  The process is NON Harmful to valid metal, and only presents problems when operated with Stainless Steel.  The only electrolysis happening in the process is breakdown of the water of the electrolyte.

Oven Cleaner is Caustic Soda- it dissolves aluminum and can be harmful to other metals and says so right on the container.  Only a fool plays with caustic soda.

[dimwittedmoose51]

I made one of the anode/electrolysis buckets and haven't used it yet.  My big question is how much  powdered laundry soap to use in a 5 gallon bucket?  Reports from the website I used to make the bucket were varied and all said that the strength of the solution was critical to success.  Too strong or too weak was equally ineffective.  My other question is will any powdered laundry soap work or does it have to have borax in it?  They say to not use baking soda for reasons that are not known to me, but I will heed them.  Photos below

[jimwrench]

 Have used similar bucket setup with baking soda. Worked alright but is a messy process and is sloooow. Haven't heard of the laundry soap as an additive but the only reason for the additive is to make the water conduct current.

[keykeeper]

Re-read the instructions you find for the electrolytic rust removal process........LAUNDRY SOAP is not what you use!!! Laundry washing soda is the correct additive. The electrolytic process relies on the solution to carry the rust away from the item being cleaned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate if you are curious what washing soda is.

[Bus]

I've tried or seen the results of about every method possible to clean old wrenches including soaking in battery acid, vinegar, toilet bowl cleaner, naval jelly, other chemicals, etc, etc,; sand, glass bead, walnut hull blasting; tumbling with sand in cement mixer; electrolysis; heating till red hot and I'm sure there are more I can't recall.  I would never use any of these methods on an antique wrench I cared anything about. they all will destroy to some degree or another any of the old patina on the wrench, highlight any pitting, and are too time consuming (I have cleaned literally thousands of old wrenches and have many more to clean, so time is a big factor) and or messy. 
I have probably spent more time trying to rerust old over cleaned farm wrenches then I have spent cleaning them.

I get best and fastest results by first washing (I use household ammonia straight from the bottle or sometimes brake cleaner if there is a lot of oil or grease on the wrench) dry and buff with and an old towel. Often that is all I do, if not I use a wire wheel with light pressure and not too long on any one area. I have three grades of wheels: fine. medium and a coarse knotted one. I use the finest one needed to get the rust removed. I use a buffing wheel on any wood parts. I sometimes coat adjustable or alloy forged wrenches (not malleable ones) with Strong Arm, etc. before wire wheeling. 

I prefer to mount my wire wheels on an arbor and a separate motor as I can slow it down using different size pulleys. This seems to work better and safer than the high speed bench grinders.

If the wrench is a farm type malleable iron type that is it. If it's an early adjustable wrench I oil any moving parts with Remington Gun Oil and sometimes rub Vaseline on the other metal parts then buff with an old rag.

 I know that everyone has their own methods but this works the best for me. You own the wrench and if you don't care about the old original look and rather have it look like a new wrench any of the chemical methods would probably work but bare in mind that you have decreased the value of an antique wrench if you ever want to sell it. This probably doesn't effect the newer forged alloy tools like it does older tools but I still think my method is faster.

 

[Aunt Phil]

Well now, the process of electroplating rust off an object has been discussed and written about by more experts than I can count, including some very well funded people at Texas A&M and one old Buzzard who just thinks on things and gives them a try.  I been watching his act for over 20 years, and I think he has it right.  His tank runs around the clock and doesn't have the brown scum layer on top. 

There are several schools of thought on what electrolyte to use ranging from lye to baking soda and several in between.

People who use lye are damn fools, it's way too dangerous and expensive to dispose of properly, even more expensive if you get caught dumping improperly.

Next on the list of agressiveness is the overpriced laundry stuff in a plastic tub which is sodium pentacarbonate.   You can buy it under the chemical name fairly cheap from soapmaking suppliers, BUT you're just wasting dollars.

Sodium Carbonate is pretty much what the majority of people use, sold as everything from Arm & Hammer washingsoda to sodaash and pool chemistry.
The rule of thumb is 1 tablespoon per gallon of water.  The rule is subject to change if you have mineral containing water, which many people fail to take into consideration.  Some people try rainwater only to learn they need to add more soda because rainwater tends to be acidic.

Baking soda is Sodium bicarbonate, 1 sodium atom and 2 carbon atoms.  It works just as well and may be easier to get your hands on, particularly if you go to a pool store.  Same proportion as Sodium Carbonate to start, adjust to maximize your ph.   get the tank cooking and add a little at a time till the current flow reaches maximum.

You can get a ph meter for about 5 bucks at Horrible Freight, and use it to check the solution.

The process is no different from plating chrome onto a bumper, hopefully people here are old enough to remember chrome bumpers.

[Wrenchmensch]

When I started collecting rusty wrenches, I bought a glass beading system intending to use it to remove rust.  Fortunately, I didn't get too far into collecting before I discovered the peening effect of glass beading.  I asked my expert friends about that, and they suggested using walnut shells in place of glass beads. That seemed to be more trouble than it was worth.  So I sold the beading cabinet to the company I worked for. 

Next, I heard about cleaning tools with NaOH, and I bought a 5 gallon pail of the stuff from a cleaning supply house down in Wilmington.  The stuff had to be diluted in water to use, and that was scary, both in the setting up and in the disposing. I mean this stuff is used to dissolve human bodies. We have a septic system, and there was no way this was going into that system. So, after a time I gave the still 98% filled pail of NaOH to the garbage guys.

Last, I tried washing dirty tools with Murphy's Oil Soap first if they are really dirty.  That works well and it doesn't screw up wooden handles. I follow that up with judicious wire brushing, using a Dremel wire brush to get in crevices if its important enough.  "Judicious"  wire brushing is the kind that can take off rust but leave underlying paint, chrome, and nickel.  Highly finished steel tool surfaces stain over time, and judicious use of a brass wheel brush can take the stains off.  An old tool meister, Herb Kean, taught me that one. 

[Branson]

Using the proper safety precautions (gloves, goggles, etc), I use muriatic acid with very good results.

Looks really good.  Are there any downsides or cautions (other than standard safety) to using muriatic acid on the tools?

[Aunt Phil]

Using the proper safety precautions (gloves, goggles, etc), I use muriatic acid with very good results.

Looks really good.  Are there any downsides or cautions (other than standard safety) to using muriatic acid on the tools?

Not many, other than the FACT that muriatic acid EATS good steel in addition to rust, and you need about 8 acres to do it in the middle of because the vapor will start every piece of steel in the area rusting.

Muriatic is fast though, and cheap.

[clovis]

Great thread!!!! I've learned a few new things!

[1930]

Ive been waiting and waiting to add again to this thread, in retrospect I wish that I had not started it and even more that I had not soaked that wrench in it. In my opinion I took every bit of life out of the wrench, I guess in dummied down terms the Lysol is some sort of acid.
I have been working for weeks to bring the glow back to her cheecks with different methods and she is coming back slowly I guess but it has been a long agravating process trying to get it just right.
The Lysol is great if your going to powder coat or paint the part but otherwise trust me and stay away from it if you want a nice natural finish