Author Topic: Hot stuff  (Read 2731 times)

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Offline john k

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Hot stuff
« on: August 17, 2012, 07:01:15 PM »
Went to a huge auction this week, when these sold I was off in another aisle bidding on tractor stuff.   Anyone here ever use one of these?  Thought about getting one, but was afraid I'd then find a use for it!
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Offline Mac53

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Re: Hot stuff
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 07:19:19 PM »
Those are sweet cutting heads.... so long! If you ever end up winning one, you might consider buying a new hose for it. Never know how degraded that old stuff is, and the new isn't too pricey.

I keep something similar to a Victor300 with a huge rosebud tip on it. I only run Propane/Oxygen though, its safer, cheaper, lasts longer, burns as hot, and is just generally less archaic than Acetylene.

As much as I'd love a cutting head like that, it would only end up being a wall hanger. My plasma cutter is my choice over the torch unless I need something heated.
-Marcus-

Offline rusty

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Re: Hot stuff
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 09:36:27 PM »

Can't help wonder if they came off a plate burning table, hardly ever a need for such a long head...

Just a weathered light rust/WD40 mix patina.

Offline 5 SHOTS

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Re: Hot stuff
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2012, 01:05:36 AM »
Those are scrapper torches. They are long so the cutter doesn't have to bend over all day while cutting scrap iron.

Offline scottg

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Re: Hot stuff
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2012, 01:25:53 AM »
Yeah I have seen those being used cutting up old ships for scrap.
  \
 So Mac, tell me about propane? With the price of acy I am not even turning on my torch much.
I switched over my little jewelers size to propane (Victor #0) but the welding tips take a full 2 or 3 minutes to heat enough to burn neutral blue.
 I connected my regular torch to propane temporarily, but couldn't keep it lit.
 What is the procedure?
 yours Scott

Offline Mac53

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Re: Hot stuff
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2012, 04:27:12 PM »
Propane actually burns hotter than acetylene. You can use most of the same stuff when switching from acetylene to propane, but not all of it.
You say that it takes several minutes to heat up, and that the larger wont even stay lit.... Are you using the same tips? The mixers / handles are interchangeable, but if you plan to burn propane you will need to get some LP tips. LP tips have (if I remember correctly) larger holes. If you're using the old tips, you're probably just starving it of fuel.

If you're planning to cut with the propane, all of the heat (okay, not all of it, but most) is in the outer flame cone and not in the smaller. You just use the tip of it.

Another big benefit is the ability to rosebud without having a huge acetylene tank. With a smaller tank, the acetylene doesn't have the chance to turn into fumes instead of just being run out as liquid and emptying your tank almost right away. This isn't a problem with propane.
-Marcus-

Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: Hot stuff
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 01:08:46 AM »
Actually Propane is NOT hotter, and Propane burns more Oxygen.

Propane is a whole new ballgame from acetylene, and you better learn it right.

Propane will NOT melt steel, acetylene will.  Propane can NOT weld steel.
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Offline Mac53

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Re: Hot stuff
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2012, 11:43:23 AM »
I did a little reading around to get some more facts on the matter.... You're right! Propane / Oxygen is actually several hundred degrees cooler....but has a much higher BTU output.

As far as burning more Oxygen.... Would you rather buy more acetylene or oxygen? I'm also a lot happier with a few extra oxygen tanks around than I am with fuel tanks (well secured of course, those things are still torpedoes)

Why do you think propane won't work on steel?
As well as being many (MANY) times more efficient for heating steel, Propane actually will cut steel, and fairly thick too. As far as welding steel, I cannot speak, but would assume if it can melt and cut it just fine, it ought to be able to.

-Marcus-

Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: Hot stuff
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2012, 11:24:32 PM »
Fact 1, I have 50 years of experience welding & cutting metal.

Fact 2, When you cut steel with either O/P or O/A the actual fuel involved in the cutting is the steel!  Ever heard the term Burning Steel? 
I think Esab might still have a good description of how O/A and O/P cut on their website, but I haven't had occasion to look lately.
BTW, In Laser cutting, if the laser also uses oxygen the steel is the true cutting fuel.

Your contention propane offers more BTU value is also erroneous as stated.  Propane may offer more BTUs per dollar spent, but that is a difficult statement to forward given the differential in gas prices by geography and consumer.  Hell a gallon of propane can currently run between 79ยข and $4.00 depending on volume and location alone.

Your suggestion buying oxygen is somehow preferable to buying acetylene indicates to me you are not conversant with the welding world.  I've watched a lot of propane happy people advocating using propane over acetylene over the last 10 years on the web, and frankly most of them fit right in with the every 9 month thread  where Goober discovers Petrogen gasoline torches.  BTW, I bought oxygen in 122cf cylinders and I buy oxygen in Dewers.    I bought based on my use, not a misguided dream of economy. 

No cylinder is a torpedo.  They are merely pressure vessels to be treated with appropriate respect.
Both Acetylene and Propane cylinders contain overpressure and overtemprature safetys, and in fact an Acetylene bottle in a fire blows off and roostertails far less violently than a propane cylinder in the same fire.

Burning steel gets pretty damn sophisticated once you get beyond chopping metal down to 3 feet for scrap.   Suggesting that anyone who can barely chop steel with an O/A torch can transition to O/P and get the same result indicates lack of experience.  In 50 years I've run across maybe 5 men who can cut as well with propane as they can with O/A.   In machine cutting situations such as tractors & guided pantographs or X-Y tables and particularly on cutters where the steel lays in water damn comparable cuts can be made.  Handheld free cutting Propane leaves you wanting and grinding as well as chopping dross off the back of the cut.

Propane is superior if you're cutting rust encrusted steel and also beneficial cutting sandwiched steel when the torch operator knows what he's doing.

As to "Why do you think propane won't work on steel?"; Please define what you mean by "work on".  As I have previously stated the fuel gas to the torch becomes irrelevant once the cut has been established.  The steel becomes the fuel that sustains the cut.  Give me 15 minutes to practice up and I'll cut steel with a welding tip by turning the fuel off. 

You apparently lack acquaintance with the cutting of thick steel.  Should you have the chance to observe a cutter doing that work you'll notice the skilled man will use a cold chisel to feather the steel and get the cut established.  That feather saves many cubic feet of fuel gas.

The reality remains a Propane torch burns more cubic feet of fuel per time than a similar sized O/A torch.  Oxygen to fuel ratio is pretty much unchangeable due to those inconvenient laws of physics politicians seem to think they can repeal.  More cf of fuel automatically mandates more cf of oxygen.

Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline Papaw

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Re: Hot stuff
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 12:14:56 AM »
Let's let this topic stand right here. This is no place to argue this topic.
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