Champion Blower & Forge No. 400 Coal forge blower

[Twilight Fenrir]

I picked up this No. 400 Forge Blower at auction a short while ago. It's seized though, and I knew it going in. I'm almost certain that the grease inside has just turned to tar, so I'm going to tear it apart, clean it up, re-grease it, and either sell it, or save it for when I eventually get a coal forge. (I'm using a propane forge atm)

Only thing is... how do I open it? XD The top portion of the gear housing CLEARLY comes off, and there are two slotted screws keeping it down... but there seems to be more to it than just the two screws, as it will wiggle with them out, but not come off. Do I  need to disassemble the fan box to get it out? Could someone enlighten me as to how to open this thing? :P Also, any suggestions on what would be the best thing to re-grease it with?

Thanks!

[john k]

Am thinking that cover should come off easily, but don't force it.  Does it look rusty inside?    At this point I'd fill it up with diesel fuel, and let her sit.    If I remember this was filled with oil, and that round tube on top was the oiler cap.   80-90 gear oil should be okay.   Your ears will thank you for using the coal burner vs. the gas burner.  Have you been to Anvilfire?

[Twilight Fenrir]

Am thinking that cover should come off easily, but don't force it.  Does it look rusty inside?    At this point I'd fill it up with diesel fuel, and let her sit.    If I remember this was filled with oil, and that round tube on top was the oiler cap.   80-90 gear oil should be okay.   Your ears will thank you for using the coal burner vs. the gas burner.  Have you been to Anvilfire?

Yeah, it doesn't come off easily... Slipped a narrow screwdriver into the crack and pried lightly at it, it will wiggle, but it won't come off. I have no idea what it looks like inside, I can't see :P

Ahh, that's a good idea. I've got a jug of Diesel laying around for my truck, just in case.

The cap is missing on mine, I know. But I don't know what it was lubricated with originally. Probably the same stuff that turned to rock in my leg vise, or so I thought. Cleaning out rust won't be that big of an issue either, really...

My ears may thank me for the coal, but my respiratory system thanks me for using gas :P So does the '66 Oldsmobile Toronado in my garage/workshop at the moment :P

Oh goodness yes I've been to AnvilFire. And, I'm apprenticing from a master as well. But thank you for trying to steer me in the right directions!

[rusty]

Perhaps the cover slides up instead of lifting off?

Some internal pics and notes about gear jambing...
http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/21131-champion-forgeblower-overhaul/

[Twilight Fenrir]

Perhaps the cover slides up instead of lifting off?

Some internal pics and notes about gear jambing...
http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/21131-champion-forgeblower-overhaul/

o.o An interesting thought! I shall have to fiddle with it again in the next couple days and try this! It certainly might!

[john k]

I checked my spare blower, and it is a 400.  If I get time this week will slip out to that shed with a couple of tools.   I see one of your pipe legs is rusty and hammered, careful, if it goes over you'll have more repairs. 

[keykeeper]

I'm only going to type this once, so listen up....

1. Loosen and remove the screws that hold the cover.

2. Use a rubber mallet, gently tap the cover in the direction away from the fan housing!!

Champion 400 blowers have a slot, inside the gear casing cover farthest away from the fan side, than prevents it from lifting directly up. The cover must slide away from the fan housing about an inch, then will pull up and free of the rest of the gear housing.

Once you do this, you will find a large, flat screw that engages this slot.

Your welcome......now fix that blower up and use it!! lol

[Twilight Fenrir]

I'm only going to type this once, so listen up....

1. Loosen and remove the screws that hold the cover.

2. Use a rubber mallet, gently tap the cover in the direction away from the fan housing!!

Champion 400 blowers have a slot, inside the gear casing cover farthest away from the fan side, than prevents it from lifting directly up. The cover must slide away from the fan housing about an inch, then will pull up and free of the rest of the gear housing.

Once you do this, you will find a large, flat screw that engages this slot.

Your welcome......now fix that blower up and use it!! lol

Haha, awesome, thanks! I'll get to it, as soon as it's not 1,000,000 degrees outside, with 1,000,000,000% humidity X_X Blah!

[Twilight Fenrir]

Alrighty! I sat down and got to work on it today... The cover popped right off with a light tap from my rubber mallet! :D

Just as I suspected, it's full of goo.... There doesn't seem to be any rust, just sand, and tar that used to be grease. I hosed the thing down with penetrating oil, and I can turn it now, backwards. I.E. I can spin the fan by hand and the crank will move, but it's not free enough to turn the crank to spin the fan. There's a bunch of dirt in the bottom of the gear housing, so I have to remove the fan-shaft to clean it out well.

Other than that, it looks to be in fine mechanical shape. I'm almost certain I'm going to have to replace the ball bearings on the back end of the fan shaft. They look pitted, but I won't know for sure until I can figure out how to get the fan shaft out of there... Guessing I'll have to take out the other gears first, but I'll do some research and figure that one out.

I see the gears appear to be brass, or bronze... so I'll have to be careful what grease I use to lubricate the thing back up... IIRC, automotive grease eats brass and bronze.

Was somewhat surprised when I popped off the fan shroud... looked almost like under my lawnmower deck! What DID this thing go through? Or, would that just be the result of coal dust getting sucked into the housing?

[keykeeper]

To access the gear shafts, you have to remove the grease caps on the sides of the gearbox.

You would be ahead to just pour some diesel fuel or kerosene in there, and let it soak. Get a long screwdriver and scrape the crud loose you can see. Rinse, lather, repeat!! Hah!

I have part of one of these, just the gear box and fan housing/fan. I actually pulled one gear and sent to a smith in Arkansas to fix his grandpas blower he inherited. I have my eye on one with a cracked fan housing, the guy used it as a flower bed ornament! I tried to buy it, as I can use my fan on it, but couldn't get him to name a price. Need to work on him a little more.

Go slow, and be advised the bearing may fall out when you pull the grease caps.

Wish I was close enough, I would buy this one from you. I have the original Champion no. 400 Whirlwind Firepot to go with it!!

[Twilight Fenrir]

To access the gear shafts, you have to remove the grease caps on the sides of the gearbox.

You would be ahead to just pour some diesel fuel or kerosene in there, and let it soak. Get a long screwdriver and scrape the crud loose you can see. Rinse, lather, repeat!! Hah!

I have part of one of these, just the gear box and fan housing/fan. I actually pulled one gear and sent to a smith in Arkansas to fix his grandpas blower he inherited. I have my eye on one with a cracked fan housing, the guy used it as a flower bed ornament! I tried to buy it, as I can use my fan on it, but couldn't get him to name a price. Need to work on him a little more.

Go slow, and be advised the bearing may fall out when you pull the grease caps.

Wish I was close enough, I would buy this one from you. I have the original Champion no. 400 Whirlwind Firepot to go with it!!

I pulled all the grease caps already, they were full of tar/sand/???? So, I scraped them out carefully with a screwdriver, and hosed everything down with penetrating oil for the time being, trying to clean and loosen things up a bit.

Hmm... I'm somewhat skeptical that I could get everything out with that process.. but, I've got some spare diesel, and it's sure not gonna hurt anything, so might as well try it before I go tearing it apart I suppose...

Just offer the guy $50 for it, and see what he says! :P You might be able to get it for $20 or so... but even at $50 you'd make a killing re-selling it.


Hehe, nice! I'm looking at a few coal forges right now, actually. Up on a local auction site. I prefer to work with propane, but I want to have a coal forge too, if I need to do anything big... or for if I go to Fur Trader Rendezvous.

[bear_man]

Twilight, you say "…IIRC, automotive grease eats brass and bronze."  First, I dunno what "IIRC" means.  Second, I've never heard that automotive grease eats brass/bronze.  Any idea what, exactly, does this in auto grease?  Could this be why someone in one thread or another suggested someone use Olive Oil on a machine?  Thank you.

[keykeeper]

If I had a Champion 400 blower, the last thing I would do is sell it. They don't go for that much, unless you find a yuppie idiot needing lawn art willing to pay ebay asking prices. Most times, these can be had for $100-125. $400 like they are listed on eBay is a fantasy, and anyone who pays that has more money than sense, in my opinion. Good luck in the restoration, sounds like you have it well in hand and don't need further help.

I'm a blacksmith, I'd USE it if I had it. Maybe someday I'll get that one in the flower bed. Sure would be better than my Canedy-Otto I have hooked to the forge currently.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Twilight, you say "…IIRC, automotive grease eats brass and bronze."  First, I dunno what "IIRC" means.  Second, I've never heard that automotive grease eats brass/bronze.  Any idea what, exactly, does this in auto grease?  Could this be why someone in one thread or another suggested someone use Olive Oil on a machine?  Thank you.

IIRC is 'If I recall correctly', sorry, it's pretty common shorthand elsewhere. 

I read an article about it while I was researching what to use on my antique drill press. I did some searching and I found where I got that notion:

http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/Greases%20and%20Lubrication.ashx

Automotive greases and industrial greases are not equal. Many of the automotive greases have anti-wear additives that are made from polysulfides and/or chlorinated esters. These additives will attack "red metals" (copper) and will pit bronze and many brass alloys. Don't use automotive lubricants in machine tools or woodworking machines!

If I had a Champion 400 blower, the last thing I would do is sell it. They don't go for that much, unless you find a yuppie idiot needing lawn art willing to pay ebay asking prices. Most times, these can be had for $100-125. $400 like they are listed on eBay is a fantasy, and anyone who pays that has more money than sense, in my opinion. Good luck in the restoration, sounds like you have it well in hand and don't need further help.

I'm a blacksmith, I'd USE it if I had it. Maybe someday I'll get that one in the flower bed. Sure would be better than my Canedy-Otto I have hooked to the forge currently.

Oh dear, well, I seem to have been somewhat misinformed then. I thought they went for about $300 in good wkrking order. If it's only likely to go for $100,I'll definitely keep it and use it. These blowers are regarded to be pretty much as good as they get, from what I understand.

[bear_man]

Thanks VERY much, Twilight, for the eddicating link on greases/lubrication.  And JFTR [Oops, that'd be "Just For The Record"   *he grins friendishly*]  "IIRC" ain't common among writers/historians, which is my winter-job sorta hobby.  At least I'm not too shy to ask, eh?