Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 321542 times)

0 Members and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline scottg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1748
    • Grandstaffworks Tools
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #360 on: June 13, 2014, 11:58:37 PM »
  Doesn't the #94 weight about 60 pounds? heehehe  :cheesy: I expect they get damaged easier than any other for this reason.

  I have the polished casting of an infill shoulder plane that size. It weighs so much its ridiculous! Must be at least 1/4" thick, solid brass sides and 1/2" sole.
 Its mostly why I haven't finished it yet. I know I'd never use it.
 
  I have another homebrewed plane casting to finish one day. Its the same story. This one is a cast iron T-rabbit with a squirrel tail. It has to weigh at least 5 pounds!! (feel like 25 in your hand)
 
  I am in the process of setting up a mini milling machine in my shop. I got one recently.
So far, even this mini mill, (which weighs about 1000 pounds), won't fit into my little shop anyplace. I am still juggling everything I ever owned to try and fit it in.
  Maybe someday I will be able to mill away significant weight from these two (substitute wood inlay maybe) and have something nice.
   
  Meanwhile I just got my first wooden filletster plane. (yard sale 3 bucks, and that included a handful of other items too).   It was pretty mangy, but I got it restored well enough to use.  I haven't used it much so far.
  The jury is still out with me, whether I am going to like it, in other words hehe
   yours Scott
 
 
     

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #361 on: June 14, 2014, 08:20:59 AM »
Pictures Scottg!!! Pictures!!! Let's see what you've got going on.......... Funny comments about the #94.  It's certainly a big one.  I'm not sure that it weighs 60 pounds, but it does have some heft.  I can't say it's one that I use because of its reputation for cracking........I'm envisioning another plane to feature in the thread.  Stay tuned.

Jim C.   
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 10:01:27 AM by Jim C. »
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline bear_man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 218
Re: Stanley #55 Combination Plane
« Reply #362 on: June 15, 2014, 03:02:02 AM »
   A popular website has one man's reviews of — or perhaps I should say "feelings about" — many in the line of Stanley's handplanes.  The few planes I was most familiar with, I had no serious quibble with their reviews.  One, though, saddened me: that of the Stanley 55 Combination Plane.  The reviewer began by saying, "Bought it.  Used it.  Hated it.  Sold it."  My experience with Stanley advertising's "A planing mill in itself" is diametrically opposite. 
   My day job was a seven-year marriage to a couple… Wait, wait.  Lemme try that again.  My day job from the late-1970s well into the 1980s consisted of seven years building an antique shop on skids (so it could be pulled by a dozer up to a couple's new home-site), a garage-shop in which the wife could work on antiques, and two porch remodels blending into a 1940s-1950s home designed and built by a contemporary of Frank Lloyd Wright.  All this for a self-styled "antique picker" (and her husband; but she was the boss), a term I was unfamiliar with.  She said she bought the stock of antique dealers going out of business and when she'd amassed enough for a particular market, the couple delivered truckloads to said market.  Wickerwork to San Francisco, high-end highboys to Connecticut, and so on.
   One winter, the crew and I were shut down due to heavy winter snow and extreme cold (this was at a little over 10,000' in northern New Mexico).  What to do, what to do?  She lured me into a sideline of antique restoration (a worthwhile story by itself), in the course of which I sometimes needed to reproduce moldings in usually-short lengths.  Building custom homes for around 25 years by then had only called for off-the-shelf moldings; I realized I needed to be able to reproduce much older molding patterns.
   Option #1 was, of course, to build a room off my shop to hold several hundred or so wooden planes.  Option #2 was to get a Stanley #55.  Problem with that was that the blades didn't cut those older shapes, but Fine Woodworking magazine, I think it was, ran an article about how to custom-shape a blade out of "scrap steel."  #55s were expensive, but I figured one was less-so than "enough" wooden planes.
   Then the couple flew the three of us back East, hired a car and we did a long, meandering tour so I could see what she wanted me to reproduce in a ca. 1720 timber frame salt box she'd had her heart set on for years.  We traveled around New England for close to a month and one day we whipped off of a highway to check out a very nice sign heralding "Antique Restorations."  The young fellow had purchased an old Cape Cod saltbox that had all the "proper period lights (windows)," said my boss, as we drove up to his home/shop, and we easily got sidetracked by an offered guided tour of the premises.  At one point my boss asked the fellow where he found the period "lights" (window frames) and he replied that he made them all, plus all of the doors but for two proper period ones he found.  I was surprised at this, because we'd done a walk-through of his shop and I saw no power-shaper or -router, and I said so.  He said he'd reproduced everything with a Stanley #55.  My boss commented, "Gosh, that must've taken forever!"  He said no, that he could grab his plane and the requisite blades (I didn't know to ask about the colonial molding patterns), adjust each just right and run all the mullions and muntins, switching blades and running them however many times, for about three windows before someone with an electrickery rig could catch up.  He added that he'd enjoyed the whole task.  I was sold.
   Late in the journey we got to Wiscasset, Maine, and discovered The Anchorage Antiques, in which a fellow had a huge old barn filled with antique hand tools…, including a goodly selection of #55s.  I took my time going through them and I picked out the body and attachments of what I long afterwards learned was a Type 1 (1897-1922), a complete later-Type (1925+) set of 55 blades, all in their original labeled boxes, plus a number of simple rectangular "extra" blades for working into special shapes I might need.  (It wasn't till I moved here to Idaho that I acquired an original chestnut box for the whole shebang at auction.  An early German immigrant had owned three 55s and all got heavy use.  That was in 2005 or '06 and I'm still mumphing about not buying the entire collection.)
   On returning to New Mexico, my very first case piece restoration needed 21" of very early molding for one end of a "country cabinet maker-made" side-board.  Thankfully I'd been saving thicker "church keys" for just such an eventuality and following the directions for shaping a blade, I got it on the first go and didn't need any of my "extras."  My second similar job was reproducing about 120' of cornice molding for both gable ends of an early-1800s home.  The third such need was for around 100' of reproduction hand-rail on the same house.  I didn't charge for making the blades, I just added them to my arsenal.
   The reviewer I mentioned at the beginning agreed that the #55 was fine for the occasional short run, but he felt that much longer runs would require too much patience and skill.  I flat don't believe in "too much patience and skill."  My reputation is in part tied to the motto my former business partner and I cribbed: "The impossible just takes a little longer," and yes, I admit we love challenges.  I'd absolutely not do or say anything to dissuade you if you do too.  How else do we create a niche reputation?   *he grins*

Edit:  Oops, I should've added the suggestion for newbies to this plane, get a copy of the (or even an original) instruction manual and read/study it as long as it takes to settle perhaps-initial butterflies in the stomach.  The subject matter is nowhere as daunting as, say, quantum physics.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 12:53:28 PM by bear_man »

Offline Branson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3643
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #363 on: June 15, 2014, 10:12:15 AM »
If you read the same fellow I did, you find he didn't care much for the 45 either.  Everybody has his own gripes, I guess.  The 45 works perfectly for me, and has certainly made live easier and made me money.  The 55 is more complex, and a little more unwieldy, I admit.  But for duplicating moldings for short runs the only other solution (except for a wall of wooden molding planes) the only other option is a scratch stock.   Last I checked at a mill, the cost for a custom molding was $75 for set up and $85 for grinding the knives.  Just a bit expensive for running 6 feet of stock (those were 1987 prices).


Offline scottg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1748
    • Grandstaffworks Tools
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #364 on: June 15, 2014, 12:09:47 PM »
Hey that was a cool story Jim! Thanks for that.
 
 Interesting that you had an old fashioned "patron" Jim.
 I worked for the town druggist at about the same time. 70's and into the 80's. Milt Kevershan.  An amiable short little weasel in a really really bad toupe, who eventually became a really close friend of mine.
  Milt built an entire town in his yard! Small buildings each stuffed with antiques. A print shop with 2 complete presses. Saloon with hundreds of antique whiskey bottles. Firehouse.
 For a while he had a beautiful small carousel. Miniature golf course, big barbecue pits and a large dance floor.  Blacksmith, Merchantile general store, school, carriage house, church, and especially the drugstore!  Which had a small but complete marble soda fountain and antique patent medicines galore.
 
 It all started with a "bottle house".

  Johnny Schitzo kept getting busted for public stupidity, so finally Judge Connors (who was tired of feeding him in jail) sentenced him to community service.   Except he didn't know what to do with him.
  So he sent him to Milt and told Milt to find work for him.
 Milt didn't know what to do with him either, so told him to go to the bar and bring back empty bottles and start building a building with them. Eventually, through several sentences and other people's sentences, the bottle house was done.  This was the start.
 
 From then on Milt would take advantage of guys with any kind of building skill who were stranded in town. He'd "contract" work. Eventually the guys would figure out they were working for 11 cents an hour and quit.   

   I never built any of the "town" buildings, but I finished and furnished them all.
 Milt paid me strict by-the-hour, cash in full, at the close of every single day.

   Momma drowned the dumb ones...... :)

Of course Milt, being Milt, he couldn't help but try and weasel in one more favor.
"Harriette needs 5 pounds of sugar" is something he might add when he was handing over the cash for a days work "Pop over to the grocery?"..........
           Vermin       heehehehe!
God I miss him
 
  I have both a 45 and a 55 in deplorable condition. I am thinking to one day make new handles that aren't so ugly as Stanley, and add thicker skates with better mouth clearance. And then japan them.  Stanley made their skates minimal for plowing really thin grooves. The mouth wasn't very tight either.
 I think I'd rather have more blade support and give up the thinnest groove myself.
  yours Scott
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 12:28:11 PM by scottg »

Offline bear_man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 218
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #365 on: June 15, 2014, 01:04:14 PM »
If you read the same fellow I did, you find he didn't care much for the 45 either.  Everybody has his own gripes, I guess.  The 45 works perfectly for me, and has certainly made live easier and made me money.  The 55 is more complex, and a little more unwieldy, I admit.  But for duplicating moldings for short runs the only other solution (except for a wall of wooden molding planes) the only other option is a scratch stock.   Last I checked at a mill, the cost for a custom molding was $75 for set up and $85 for grinding the knives.  Just a bit expensive for running 6 feet of stock (those were 1987 prices).

Amen, Branson.  I witnessed a friend who was making a pair of double-Dutch door reproductions and when I heard what he'd paid for custom shaper blades, I knew I was in the right line of work.  He speculated that he'd probably never use those blades again and didn't feel right about charging his client for their work-up.  He chalked their expense up to an experiential lesson.

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #366 on: June 15, 2014, 08:59:53 PM »
bear_man,

That's a great story and an equally great endorsement of the Stanley #55.  I guess not everyone is going to find utility in every plane, while someone else may think the same plane is invaluable, or somewhere in between worthless and amazing.  One can only find out through several attempts at using the plane in question.  Finding the perfect job for a hand plane can be difficult at times, however, once the plane has proven its worth, you'll reach for it more and more.  I appreciate the time you took to share your hands on experience with a plane that can be intimidating to try.  While some websites may cast doubt in a potential user's mind, I'd like to foster a more positive attitude here and hope that what WE as a group are doing, is encouraging one another to pick up an old hand plane (or any old tool) and give it a try.  There are some advanced hand plane users, craftsman, and collectors here too.  To you folks, all I ask for is your continued guidance and experience.  Finally, we all like pictures, so if you could post a few pictures of your #55, that would be great!  Thanks again for contributing to the thread.

Jim C.     
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline bear_man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 218
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #367 on: June 15, 2014, 11:47:54 PM »
Jim, I'm still trying to figure out how to massage my pics down to 640 X 480 pixels.  For the last 20 years, I had to get a computer (I'm a long-time typist) and I've been a writer and historian, because I couldn't use my hands without shaking.  My computer was a glorified tuypewriter and filing cabinet in one little laptop — and I didn't even have to learn that much about computer programs and so on.  I've done next to nothing with photos and only NOW am I wanting to get into them, but when I ask a question about them, no one treats me like the computer idiot I am.  Now let's see…, how do I make a little cross-eyed smiley face?

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #368 on: June 16, 2014, 09:30:20 AM »
Jim, I'm still trying to figure out how to massage my pics down to 640 X 480 pixels.  For the last 20 years, I had to get a computer (I'm a long-time typist) and I've been a writer and historian, because I couldn't use my hands without shaking.  My computer was a glorified tuypewriter and filing cabinet in one little laptop — and I didn't even have to learn that much about computer programs and so on.  I've done next to nothing with photos and only NOW am I wanting to get into them, but when I ask a question about them, no one treats me like the computer idiot I am.  Now let's see…, how do I make a little cross-eyed smiley face?

No pressure on posting pictures.  I'm also in the "computer idiot" category and frequently need help from those with more "computer smarts" than I have (which isn't much).  Stay in touch and I hope to see you here at the Hand Plane thread.  Join in any time!

Jim C.
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline Branson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3643
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #369 on: June 16, 2014, 09:30:46 AM »
Amen, Branson.  I witnessed a friend who was making a pair of double-Dutch door reproductions and when I heard what he'd paid for custom shaper blades, I knew I was in the right line of work.  He speculated that he'd probably never use those blades again and didn't feel right about charging his client for their work-up.  He chalked their expense up to an experiential lesson.

A tool for one job, probably never to be used again, and he just ate the cost?   Seems to me that  the job should have at least covered part of the cost of an unusual tool bought just for that job.   Hope he got repeat business from the customer.

Offline scottg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1748
    • Grandstaffworks Tools
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #370 on: June 16, 2014, 01:44:33 PM »
I've done next to nothing with photos and only NOW am I wanting to get into them, but when I ask a question about them, no one treats me like the computer idiot I am.

  He hee...... ain't it the truth!
My youngest boy, who can flip though screens so fast I can't even see them, cannot talk at all while he does it. Zip!
 When he does try to slow down to tell me something, he totally loses his train of thought!

  You just need to pick a simplified computer program and start in. We'll help.
     yours Scott

Offline Bus

  • Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
    • The Wrenchingnews
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #371 on: June 16, 2014, 02:30:48 PM »
I recommend IrfanView photo converter and editor.

http://www.irfanview.net/

Offline bear_man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 218
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #372 on: June 16, 2014, 05:27:32 PM »
Branson:  I'm like my friend (and my former business partner is too).  I/we "took/take jobs" implying we could/can actually do the work on demand/need.  Had we appended, "…IF you'll front the money for any tools I don't have," the expense wouldn't be/have been an issue.  My former partner's very first carpentry job, he arrived on-site with an apron, pencil, tape, hammer & framing square.  He was hired, but it was touch-and-go for awhile and he didn't actually get on the crew until the next day after he'd bought a bunch more stuff.  My pard has a Lot of "early" stories that kept us in stitches.
    My own personal "out" was having to take the time to shape blades (my memory says 7 or 8 total), and the only "write-off loss" SO FAR was the biggish blade I made for running early-1800s hand-rail.  Still, I may yet some day run some more of it, or maybe that'll be one of my heirs.  Heh.

Scott (and so many others who've offered help as well):  Thank you!  I JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO learned how to resize pics!  Now I ONLY need to learn how to connect a URL to one so's to insert that btw. brackets in a post.  Like I told Papaw , my head's just about raw from all the scratching. 

Bus:  Thank you, but I drive a 2009 Mac and Irfanview's only guaranteed for Windows users.  And before anyone sneers at the Mac, I still don't own any anti-virus software or have to go through all the malware angst (what my former pard called) "Dozer drivers" do.  Yet, I better add, just so I don't anger the compuker gods.  And on that note…   *he exits with a wave and still-scratching*

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #373 on: June 16, 2014, 10:08:11 PM »
Back on page 24 of the thread, somewhere in reply 351, I mentioned to Branson that I had purchased a few planes in the past and probably overpaid for some of them.  I guess it’s part of the “buying antique tools” learning curve.  That discussion coupled with Scottg’s recent comments about the Stanley #94 got me to thinking…….

Stanley #94:

First off, let me start by saying that I overpaid for this plane.  I bought it at a time when my self perceived knowledge outweighed my actual knowledge.  Having had a second, unbiased, more experienced opinion would have saved me some money.  I wasn’t critical enough of the plane  or disciplined enough to walk away from it.  I was more caught up in the rarity of the plane versus its physical condition.  To make a long story short, I bought a GREAT user quality plane at a collector quality price.  Generally speaking, the example depicted below is in better shape than most other #94s that I’ve seen, but I have seen a few that were significantly better since I bought mine.  With that out of the way, let me begin.

Stanley made four rabbet planes in its 90 series (#90, #92, #93, and #94).  For some reason, there was never a #91.  I don’t know why.  The #94 is the largest of the group (7½” long and 1¼” wide) and probably the most scarce too.  Perhaps because of its size and design, the top casting was very prone to cracking at or near its arch.   I’ve seen more than a few that have been cracked and/or repaired in that area.  Many other examples that I’ve seen, damaged or not, have been practically devoid of all nickel plating.  At least more so than its smaller siblings, which seem to more readily retain their nickel plating.  The #94 is simply a tough plane to find in good useable condition, and rough examples are still pricey.

Stanley produced the #94 between 1902 and 1943.  The example below was probably manufactured during the 1920s.  I can only imagine that the rarity of this particular model is due in part to it being used and then broken.  Those that survived are usually missing most or all of their nickel finish.  Again, I think they were used a lot.  The nickel plating on the example below is well worn at the rear of the top casting where a craftsperson would palm the tool during use.  It’s simply a great tool that can produce some fantastic results on medium to large joints.  Like every plane in the 90 series, it can be easily converted into a chisel plane just by removing its top casting.  I'd recommend the #94 to use in your shop, but be careful with it and set it for a light pass.  Digging in too deep and adding a little force to the cut is just going to put unnecessary stress on the top casting.  Dropping it is an instant disaster!  It's an expensive plane to make a mistake with.  As I mentioned earlier, even those with poor finishes and signs of age and neglect still command more than most other models in similar condition.  Very recently I came across one that was undamaged, but was missing 90% of its finish, and included some light surface rust over most of its lower casting and iron.....the asking price was $150.  I know that it ultimately sold for $125.  As much as I like the #94, a more common, more affordable, more durable substitute might be the smaller #93.         

Jim C.       
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 05:31:31 PM by Jim C. »
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline Chillylulu

  • CONTRIBUTOR
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1533
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #374 on: June 17, 2014, 02:30:19 AM »
Now let's see…, how do I make a little cross-eyed smiley face?
  I get it if I don't pay attention to where the bathrooms are.