Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 321379 times)

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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #120 on: January 04, 2014, 12:53:58 PM »
Jim, that walnut top is just a master piece!  Kudos.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #121 on: January 04, 2014, 02:08:05 PM »
Jim, that walnut top is just a master piece!  Kudos.

Thanks Branson.  It was a rough start but I got there.  In my previous write up, I mentioned using a scrub plane and a low angle jack plane to initially flatten the walnut planks.  At the time, knowing almost nothing about hand planes, and feeling the pressure to get the project started and completed, I did do some research and discovered Lie-Nielsen planes.  I learned that they were manufactured in Maine and from what I had read, they were quality tools.  I gave them a call and spoke to a man (I don't remember his name) who patiently listened to my "island" predicament.  After I went through the facts and circumstances with him, and having a very general idea of what I needed to do to get the project off the ground, he told me that he understood exactly what the problem was and then recommended that I consider buying a scrub plane and a jack plane to flatten the planks.  He explained the planing process in detail and answered all my questions.  After that twenty minute conversation, I felt confident that I could get the job done, so I bought the planes.  They weren't cheap, but they most definitely lived up to my expectations, and they put me on the hand plane path for life.  Over the years, I bought a couple more Lie-Nielsens and received a few as gifts.  They're great tools.

The scrub plane (in the background) is modeled from the Stanley #40 1/2.  Stanley also made a slightly smaller, and more common version, the #40.  The low angle jack plane (in the fore ground) is modeled from the Stanley #62.  An original Stanley low angle jack is a wonderful tool that functions more like a block plane.  Unfortunately, their throats are prone to cracking very easily.  At some point, I'll add a couple posts on the Stanley scrub planes and the Stanley low angle jack plane.  I'd also like to do a few posts on the Lie-Nielsens as well.  Thanks again.

Jim C.     
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 10:12:26 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Art Rafael

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #122 on: January 04, 2014, 02:16:27 PM »
Now these are my kind of planes.  But I'm eager to hear what you have to say about the Lie-Nielsen scrapers, the 212 and the112 -- and others.   Ralph

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #123 on: January 04, 2014, 04:06:35 PM »
Now these are my kind of planes.  But I'm eager to hear what you have to say about the Lie-Nielsen scrapers, the 212 and the112 -- and others.   Ralph

Ralph,

The Lie-Nielsen (LN) planes are really nice tools!  I really can't say anything bad about them.  When I initially bought the two depicted above, I must admit that I was kind of shocked at how expensive they were, but they were still less than any machine and they were also the right tools for the job at hand.  Unfortunately I don't have the LN #112 or the LN #212, so I can't comment on how they cut, etc.  If they're anything like the other LN planes that I do have, then I would bet that they will not disappoint and produce great results right out of the box, doing nothing more than honing their irons.   I do have both Stanley versions and can say that the #112 scraper is extremely useful and worthy of a spot on any woodworker's bench.  It took a few tries to get the burr right on the iron, but once I figured it out, and set the angle of the iron correctly, it was "smooth" sailing.  The #212 operates exactly like the #112, only on a smaller scale.  I'll have to say however, that due to the nature of the #212's scarcity, I don't really use it.

Shortly after I bought those two LN planes, I discovered the merits of user quality antique hand planes.  Not only could they be made to produce some very nice results, but the more common Stanley bench and block planes in user condition, were generally much less expensive than the LN versions.  A perfect example would be a Stanley #4 bench plane versus the LN #4.  A user Stanley #4 is much cheaper.  As for the rarer Stanleys, like the #212 for instance, then the LNs are much more affordable.  In some cases, an antique Stanley, in good user condition, is about the same price as a new LN.  A good example of this is the Stanley #62 and the LN #62 low angle jack planes.  I'm definitely a fan of LN planes, but I don't have many.  As much as I like them, and as much as I believe the LNs are generally worth the cost, I'm still drawn to the old Stanleys.

Jim C.     
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 12:30:28 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #124 on: January 05, 2014, 08:23:54 AM »
I'm struggling by with my Stanley 40 1/2  -- the one I found in the bottom of an old tool chest -- and my Stanley 12. 
I've looked somewhat longingly at the low angle jack planes, but haven't found one in my (low) price range.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #125 on: January 05, 2014, 10:03:31 AM »
I'm struggling by with my Stanley 40 1/2  -- the one I found in the bottom of an old tool chest -- and my Stanley 12. 
I've looked somewhat longingly at the low angle jack planes, but haven't found one in my (low) price range.


Hi Branson,

When you say you're struggling with your scrub plane, what do you mean?  Are you having trouble using it, sharpening the iron, what exactly?  Can you be more specific?  If it's a problem using it, I considered trying to describe that process to you, but did a little poking around on the web, and came across this ten minute video on the Lie-Nielsen (LN) site.  The instructor in the video does a first rate job of demonstrating the scrub plane's applications and the various techniques for using it.  The process the instructor goes through is exactly the same process that was described to me several years ago on the telephone.  Who knows, that may have been the same man that I spoke to back then.  If the link doesn't work (because I'm a computer novice and don't know how to post links), follow these steps to the video:  Go to the LN site, click on hand tools, then click hand planes, then click special purpose tools, then click scrub plane.  Below a photo of the scrub plane is a link to the video that says "here" in blue.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6osskqppymU&feature=youtu.be&noredirect=1

If you're having trouble sharpening the iron, I can probably help you with that.  The same goes for your Stanley #12 scraper.  Are you having trouble getting a burr on the iron?  I can describe the process and/or point you in the direction of an existing writeup on that procedure.  It takes a little practice, but it's well worth the effort to get it right and it's a couple hours out in the shop tinkering.  That's never a bad thing.  It sounds like you have two nice old planes that need to get back to work.  Even if you don't currently have a specific project in mind for them, just learning a new skill using old tools is rewarding all by itself. 

Low angle jack planes are very useful tools to say the least.  They're easy to use, having no frog or lateral adjustment.  They're really just big block planes that are versatile in so many ways.  With the iron bedded at a low angle and with the adjustable throat set for a light pass, they're great on working end grain.  Their length makes them wonderful to use on larger surfaces with irregular grain, particularly during the stock flattening process, and they're not bad as short jointers either.  The immediate problem with low angle jack planes is their cost.  This is a situation where buying an old Stanley #62, or opting for a currently manufactured LN #62 (modeled after the Stanley) gets you to about the same place when the time comes to pay for one or the other.

The big problem with the Stanley #62 is its throat.  The section of the sole, immediately behind the cutting iron is VERY thin.  If one is aggressively planing stock and a thick shaving, or several shavings get jammed behind the cutting edge protruding through the throat and the sole of the plane itself, a good chunk of that sole just behind the iron will crack out and the plane is done!  I've seen several Stanley #62s in this condition.  Consequently, they're moderately scarce even in user condition, and can easily cost $200 or more.  NOS (New Old Stock) examples are significantly more.  Sargent also made a low angle jack plane, the #514, that's equally fragile for the same reasons I described, and it's equally as scarce, again, making it costly.  Under most circumstances, I'd like to use antique planes when possible.  When it comes to the low angle jack plane, however, the LN is the better choice.  It's heftier than the original Stanley, and is made to withstand aggressive planing.  For around $250, the LN will deliver great results, and pretty much eliminate the apprehension of using, and possibly damaging an antique Stanley. 

Jim C.
         
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 12:12:43 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Papaw

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #126 on: January 05, 2014, 10:32:15 AM »
I fixed the link for you. You left out the bracket ([) before the  /url .
Member of PHARTS - Perfect Handle Admiration, Restoration and Torturing Society
 
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #127 on: January 05, 2014, 11:39:23 AM »
I fixed the link for you. You left out the bracket ([) before the  /url .

Thank you sir! 
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Offline scottg

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #128 on: January 05, 2014, 03:15:12 PM »
Really nice island Jim. Especially for a newbie at the time, just outstanding!
   
  Mike you need an 80.
  If you are messing with a #12 scraper? This is mostly overkill in my experience. The #112 too.  They are good tools.
 I even designed and built a semi infill scraper plane with tilting tote.
 

But I don't use my scraping planes so much.
 
The #80, on the other hand, is the undisputed worlds champion best selling scraper of all time!!  They are cheap, simple and soooooo effective. And you can just lop up old handsaws for blades. For the daily grind wear and tear there is no equal.
 (well except the Sargent or Stearns clones)

I won't be without at least 2 of them operating at all times.
 Beside whatever wood needed it, including a hardwood floor one time, I have scraped things that no scraper was ever designed to scrape with them too. Industrial things.

  Some tools, the Stanley #4 and the 5 and the 80?? These are foundation woodwork tools. They didn't outsell anything else ever made on planet earth for nothing. 

    yours Scott

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #129 on: January 05, 2014, 04:31:49 PM »
Thanks Scott.  No doubt that the Stanley #80 is a tried and true worker.  It got the job done and in comparison to other Stanley scrapers available in its time, the #80 was probably the least expensive to own.  There was a lot of bang for the buck.  The same is true even now.  The #80 is still widely available in almost any condition, easy to use, and extremely versatile.  Still, every now and then a scraper shaped more like a traditional bench plane, like the #112, is the right tool (or maybe the more fun) tool for the job, particularly on large flat surfaces.  Your custom made gem is proof of that!

Jim C. 
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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #130 on: January 06, 2014, 07:43:03 AM »
>When you say you're struggling with your scrub plane, what do you mean?  Are you having trouble using it, sharpening the iron, what exactly?  Can you be more specific?

Just joking around, Jim -- my perverse sense of humor at work.  I have no idea where or when I got the #12 (some time in the '70s or early '80s, and the
#80 1/2...  A friend wanted a Bohmer hinge for the door between his kitchen and the dining room.  One of the guys I worked with had a NOS Bohmer and I got that for my friend for 20 bucks.  I installed it as a favor, but he kept nagging me about my charge for installation.  He was showing me around this house he had just bought, and in the basement was one of the old carpenter's tool chests that had been left by the seller.  He asked me again how much I wanted, so I said, "How about that tool chest?"  Sure!  That's when I discovered it wasn't empty.  I pulled out five old Stanley planes, a bunch of wrenches and some other odds and ends.

Thinking about the cost of new Lee Valley equivalents versus the probably less than $10 I have in the 12 and the 80 1/2  put my tongue firmly in my cheek.  That's all.  The scrub works like a dream, and hogs off wood like a bulldozer.  One of my best ever acquisitions.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #131 on: January 06, 2014, 10:01:55 AM »
>When you say you're struggling with your scrub plane, what do you mean?  Are you having trouble using it, sharpening the iron, what exactly?  Can you be more specific?

Just joking around, Jim -- my perverse sense of humor at work.  I have no idea where or when I got the #12 (some time in the '70s or early '80s, and the
#80 1/2...  A friend wanted a Bohmer hinge for the door between his kitchen and the dining room.  One of the guys I worked with had a NOS Bohmer and I got that for my friend for 20 bucks.  I installed it as a favor, but he kept nagging me about my charge for installation.  He was showing me around this house he had just bought, and in the basement was one of the old carpenter's tool chests that had been left by the seller.  He asked me again how much I wanted, so I said, "How about that tool chest?"  Sure!  That's when I discovered it wasn't empty.  I pulled out five old Stanley planes, a bunch of wrenches and some other odds and ends.

Thinking about the cost of new Lee Valley equivalents versus the probably less than $10 I have in the 12 and the 80 1/2  put my tongue firmly in my cheek.  That's all.  The scrub works like a dream, and hogs off wood like a bulldozer.  One of my best ever acquisitions.

Good one Branson!  That's the trouble with texting, emails, and thread posting......sometimes the intended meaning is lost without the tone of a person's voice, inflections, facial expressions, etc.  When I initially read your post, I have to admit that at one point I thought to myself, "How the heck can this guy make these beautiful cabinets for a museum using hand planes and not know how to use a scrub plane?" It didn't make sense, but one never knows for sure.  I figured I'd give you a straight answer and go from there.  Next time you claim to have a problem with a plane, I'll be more cautious about my answer!!  You got me this time!!!  I've come to the conclusion that telling you about hand planes is like telling a fish how to swim.  I think you owe me a picture of that scrub plane!!

Jim C.     
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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #132 on: January 07, 2014, 06:30:50 AM »
It's in a chest at the bottom of a stack in storage at the moment, and I have to make room in my workshop before I can bring in anything else.  But when I do, expect a photo.  I think I have a wooden scrub as well -- in the chest next to the one with the Stanley -- a horn plane maybe...

Offline Art Rafael

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #133 on: January 07, 2014, 10:38:26 AM »
A "horn plane"?  I don't think that I've ever met one.  I'd love to see some pictures.   Ralph

Offline Lewill2

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