Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 256630 times)

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Offline mikeswrenches

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2013, 08:00:22 PM »
Some of the most overlooked bench planes are the Keen Kutters that are marked K3 thru K8(there may have been a K2).  Unless you have had one apart, you won't know that these are the same as the early Stanley Bed Rocks with the round sides but without the Bed Rock price.  Do not make the mistake of buying the ones marked KK and thinking they are the same as the K's because they aren't.  They are the same as the common Stanley bench planes but with a different lateral adjusting lever.  These are nice planes!

Mike
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2013, 09:58:46 PM »
Some of the most overlooked bench planes are the Keen Kutters that are marked K3 thru K8(there may have been a K2).  Unless you have had one apart, you won't know that these are the same as the early Stanley Bed Rocks with the round sides but without the Bed Rock price.  Do not make the mistake of buying the ones marked KK and thinking they are the same as the K's because they aren't.  They are the same as the common Stanley bench planes but with a different lateral adjusting lever.  These are nice planes!

Mike

Have any pictures Mike?  I don't know too much about Keen Kutter planes.  I'd like to see them and learn more, particularly if they're like old Bedrocks.

Jim C.
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Offline scottg

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2013, 11:04:46 PM »

 Finding Keen Kutters of any kind cheap, is not easy anymore.
 More people (as in swap meet, junk shop and antique dealers) know the name Keen Kutter more than they do the name Bedrock.

 As far as I know, the K-number planes -are- actual Stanley roundside bedrocks.
 But marked round side Bedrocks already sell for considerably less than square side Bedrocks anyway.
    yours Scott

 

Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2013, 07:53:25 AM »
I have two 45 combination planes.  Both are clearly Stanleys, but one is from Sears and the other is from Wards.  One came to me with a leatherette carrying case and a full set of blades in their wooden holder.  Quality of materials, fit and finish are just as good as a Stanley (I used to have one  Stanley as well).  Once I had to t&g a bunch of boards, so I set the Sears for tongue, and the Wards for groove.  Perfect. 

The Craftsman duplex seems to be equal in quality to the Sargent, and both seem as good as my old Stanley, and my English made Stanley.  (I don't know how I ended up with several of these.)  The English job had been dropped and the handle was cleanly broken off -- JB Weld seems to have fixed it just fine for a worker.  It came with all the bells and whistles.  I suspect it got dropped before the PO had a chance to use it even once.

I'll see what I can do about getting pics of the Craftsman and the Sargent.

Yeah, there's the crap-shoot factor.  But so far I've been lucky.  Except that years ago I bought a new Kunz spokeshave that was bad to the bone straight out of the box.  I thought about throwing it across the shop, but gave it away instead.  Replaced it with an old, used Stanley.

Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2013, 08:06:24 AM »
Yes, I like hand planes.  I use them, I collect them, and I enjoy learning about them.  To those who already know the utility and pleasure of using planes out in the shop, then I hope you'll join in the conversation.                 

Joining in.  Planes are one of my favorite tools, and I have a lot of them.  The smallest ones are those little finger planes, the largest is a wooden jointer.  I've got a bunch of wooden molding planes, slightly fewer skew rabbet planes, and one set of small carriage makers planes that weren't completed.  More block planes than is probably sane...

Yes, the do their jobs, and a lot of times do the job better than power tools.  For quick fixes, they do the job faster as well.

I like the way you can feel the work happening as the plane passes over the wood.  And the sound of a sharp plane at work is just music!  Ah, and wonderfully quiet.


Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2013, 09:35:55 AM »

 Finding Keen Kutters of any kind cheap, is not easy anymore.
 More people (as in swap meet, junk shop and antique dealers) know the name Keen Kutter more than they do the name Bedrock.

 As far as I know, the K-number planes -are- actual Stanley roundside bedrocks.
 But marked round side Bedrocks already sell for considerably less than square side Bedrocks anyway.
    yours Scott

I've got this Stanley #605 1/2 smooth sole Bedrock that is one of my ALL TIME favorite planes to use.  It's a great plane.  It's just one of those few planes that only needed its iron sharpened and it was ready to go.  It cuts beautifully, all of its parts fit perfectly, and it's just the right size for a lot of the work I like to do.  Maybe I'll feature that one next.  That one plane alone inspires me to want to go out in the shop right now and start making something!

Jim C.
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2013, 09:45:17 AM »
Yes, I like hand planes.  I use them, I collect them, and I enjoy learning about them.  To those who already know the utility and pleasure of using planes out in the shop, then I hope you'll join in the conversation.                 

Joining in.........

Thanks for making it official, but honestly, I had already counted you in as an "official member" of the thread way back at Reply #6.  Thanks for joining!

Jim C.
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Offline johnsironsanctuary

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2013, 09:07:10 AM »
Dave Heckel's book on the Stanley 45 came yesterday. WOW! He sure did a great job researching it.  From what I have read so far, mine is a Type 8 from 1907-08. There are a few pieces missing and the box, that I paid dearly for, is not a Stanley 45 box. I am missing the beading cam, the slitting tool and the rosewood strip on the fence. It looks like all of the missing stuff is on ebay. I am bidding on a fence currently. Plating is only about 50%, but after a hundred and some years, I would say it looks normal and well cared for. I need to sharpen a few blades a see how it works. I plan on making a new drawer for my Star Tool Chest that has one missing. It will bead the top of the drawer front and cut the rabbets on the drawer front after I cut the half blind dovetails. If I can find some chestnut wood, I might make a repro box for it. The mind boggles at what this tool can do.

I got a chance to fondle a couple of very old core box plane this last week. I'll post about that later.
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2013, 11:01:20 PM »
Dave Heckel's book on the Stanley 45 came yesterday. WOW! He sure did a great job researching it.  From what I have read so far, mine is a Type 8 from 1907-08. There are a few pieces missing and the box, that I paid dearly for, is not a Stanley 45 box. I am missing the beading cam, the slitting tool and the rosewood strip on the fence. It looks like all of the missing stuff is on ebay. I am bidding on a fence currently. Plating is only about 50%, but after a hundred and some years, I would say it looks normal and well cared for. I need to sharpen a few blades a see how it works. I plan on making a new drawer for my Star Tool Chest that has one missing. It will bead the top of the drawer front and cut the rabbets on the drawer front after I cut the half blind dovetails. If I can find some chestnut wood, I might make a repro box for it. The mind boggles at what this tool can do.

I got a chance to fondle a couple of very old core box plane this last week. I'll post about that later.

Hey John,

I kind of thought that if you liked old Stanley combination planes, you'd like Dave Heckel's book.  He did do a fantastic job researching it and presenting the information.  That book is the last word when it comes to the #45.  Dave is an extremely active member of the Mid West Tool Collectors Association and is great to talk to about not only Stanley #45 planes, but also old Sargent planes, and many other old hand tools.  He's a very knowledgeable guy, who's friendly and approachable.  Earlier in the thread, I suggested that people who are interested in old planes should educate themselves.  Well, Dave is one of the people I turn to for education. 

Jim C.
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2013, 01:40:45 PM »
Back at Reply #32, I mentioned finding New Old Stock (NOS) planes, and being conflicted about using them because they're NOS only once.  After sharpening the iron, tuning them up, and using them, they obviously start to lose their "factory fresh" appearance and original characteristics.  From a user's point of view, it's a brand new tool ready to go to work, just like any other.  From a collector's standpoint, it's the ultimate find, that should be preserved in its original factory state forever.

In future posts, I'll feature some planes that are in amazing condition for their age, but aren't in NOS condition.  Some of those planes I use, and some I don't for various reasons.  In this post, I'll show you an NOS plane.  Identifying a NOS plane is pretty easy.  It will look brand new and its finishes will be 99% unblemished.  Often their bare cast iron soles and sides may have some staining from sitting untouched for decades.  They frequently have original brochures, retailer price tags, sales receipts, and other original packaging in their boxes.  (Notice the Stanley logo tag still tied to the tote.)  The cutting irons still have their factory grinds on them.  The rosewood knob and tote have no dents, chips or cracks, and their glossy finishes haven't been dulled by a workman's hands upon them. 

If you ever come across a plane like this, even if it's a run of the mill, common model, before you take it home and start using it, take just a second to reconsider that urge.  The plane will only be in factory condition once.  The opportunity to study it and compare it to other planes of its era, and eras that came before and after its manufacture can be invaluable to users and collectors alike. Clean, unquestioned, unaltered, unused factory examples of tools that are many decades old are in short supply.  For the most part, well cared for user quality tools are still readily available for work in your shop.  Any old NOS tool should be preserved in its original state.  Looking beyond its premium monetary value, it should be preserved for its historic and educational merits.

Stanley #6C:

Stanley manufactured the #6C beginning in 1898, and continued with its production well into the 1980s.  The "C" in the model designation stands for corrugated sole.  The plane itself is identical to the Stanley #6 in every way, except for its sole corrugations.  The #6 size bench plane is technically considered to be a "fore" plane.  It's a little longer than a #5 "jack" plane (14" to 15" long) , but shorter than the #7 and #8 jointers (22" to 24" long).  Fore planes usually run about 16" to 18" long.  Many consider them to be an odd size.  Actually, I think their size may have been well suited to the craftsmen of old who carried their tools with them from job to job.  At 18" long, the fore plane could fit into a portable tool box and still function as a short jointer without the extra weight, length, and bulk of a larger, more traditional jointer like the #7 or #8.  The plane depicted below is an early Type 16, manufactured by Stanley between 1933 and 1941.  This is a true NOS plane.  As much as I'd like to sharpen the iron and test it out..... I don't dare!!

Jim C.         
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 08:10:25 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Art Rafael

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2013, 10:43:03 PM »
Thanks Jim C.  I do love hand planes, and this thread has been quite an education for me.  Ralph

Offline WiebeLC

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2013, 11:29:04 PM »
Thank you for doing this thread Jim C. My dad started collecting tools and planes and especially planes when I was young, well younger anyways (I'm 18). I've always had a special fascination with the planes. This thread is a good education and an opportunity to see examples of the rare planes that never found their way up here to northern Alberta. I just started my own collection this summer with a matched pair of D. Malloch and Son hollow and round.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2013, 12:19:21 AM »
Thanks Jim C.  I do love hand planes, and this thread has been quite an education for me.  Ralph

Thanks Ralph, but I'd have to say that we are all learning something from you.  What you're doing with tools is fascinating!  I've been enjoying your thread immensely!

Jim C.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 07:36:42 AM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2013, 12:51:23 AM »
Thank you for doing this thread Jim C. My dad started collecting tools and planes and especially planes when I was young, well younger anyways (I'm 18). I've always had a special fascination with the planes. This thread is a good education and an opportunity to see examples of the rare planes that never found their way up here to northern Alberta. I just started my own collection this summer with a matched pair of D. Malloch and Son hollow and round.

I'm glad you're enjoying the thread.  If you and/or your dad have planes, we'd all like to see them.  Post a few pictures if you get a chance.  It's good hear that a younger guy is getting into old hand tools.  I got interested in hand planes after I discovered how useful they could be.  I read about them, bought a few at garage sales, and asked a lot of questions at tool club meets.  The more I used them, the more I wanted to grow my collection.  Over time, my focus turned from user planes to collector quality planes.  I met a few gentlemen who really mentored me early on, and they helped me develop and refine my collection.   I made some mistakes along the way, but that's part of the learning process.  Not knowing how to use a plane correctly can cause a poor work product and thus, wasted wood.  Not knowing what you're doing as a collector can be expensive!  Take your time, read, research, and ask questions.  Using and collecting antique hand tools can be a lifetime endeavor.  You're off to a great start.  I hope you'll be checking in often.  I'll try to keep things moving and current.  Still, don't be afraid to post pictures of planes that YOU have, or may be using on a project.  My true intent for starting the thread was actually an attempt to lure others out of the "wood work" so that I could see and read about THEIR hand planes.  I'm just using mine as bait.     

Jim C. 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 11:35:12 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Chillylulu

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2013, 11:59:20 AM »
Back at Reply #32, I mentioned finding New Old Stock (NOS) planes, and being conflicted about using them because they're NOS only once.  After sharpening the iron, tuning them up, and using them, they obviously start to lose their "factory fresh" appearance and original characteristics.  From a users point of view, it's a brand new tool ready to go to work, just like any other.  From a collector's standpoint, it's the ultimate find, that should be preserved in its original factory state forever.

In future posts, I'll feature some planes that are in amazing condition for their age, but aren't in NOS condition.  Some of those planes I use, and some I don't for various reasons.  In this post, I'll show you an NOS plane.  Identifying a NOS plane is pretty easy.  It will look brand new and its finishes will be 99% unblemished.  Often their bare cast iron soles and sides may have some staining from sitting untouched for decades.  They frequently have original brochures, retailer price tags, sales receipts, and other original packaging in their boxes.  (Notice the Stanley logo tag still tied to the tote.)  The cutting irons still have their factory grinds on them.  The rosewood knob and tote have no dents, chips or cracks, and their glossy finishes haven't been dulled by a workman's hands upon them. 

If you ever come across a plane like this, even if it's a run of the mill, common model, before you take it home and start using it, take just a second to reconsider that urge.  The plane will only be in factory condition once.  The opportunity to study it and compare it to other planes of its era, and eras that came before and after its manufacture can be invaluable to users and collectors alike. Clean, unquestioned, unaltered, unused factory examples of tools that are many decades old are in short supply.  For the most part, well cared for user quality tools are still readily available for work in your shop.  Any old NOS tool should be preserved in its original state.  Looking beyond its premium monetary value, it should be preserved for its historic and educational merits.

Recently I picked this up.  The box is tore, a corner is ripped inside, and there are small spill or other marks on it.
The plane has not been trued up at all, but the plane has stroked some pine (it seems like just to test, not much.)

How far from NOS is this with the damaged box.