Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude

[OilyRascal]

I've tried, but I can't find any leads on either of these tools.  Any help would be appreciated.  As a learning experience for me, if you could help me understand WHY you know "what you know" it would be very helpful to me.  I'm looking to figure out who makes them and timeframe, info on company, etc.

The wrench is marked "804" on the shank of one side, and has logo on shank of other.  The socket?  has no markings.

thanks again!

[jimwrench]

 Wrench is probably Armstrong. Alloy Artifacts shows a sister wrench (single box with 800 type part no.)Alloys wrench has A ina triangle logo from which you can figure out vintage. Don't know about socket.

[rusty]

Spend some time browsing at alloy artifacts, look at the logos, some companies only have logo marks.
The arm holding a hammer mark is from Armstrong tool co....

Also, it helps to learn the ranges of numbers that correspond with the old 'standard numbers', in this case, the 800 series was for single ended box wrenches, you have a general purpose wrench, box type...

The socket looks special purpose......dunno

[OilyRascal]

Thanks and Thanks!  Question on Alloy Artifacts - what is the source for the information posted there?  Is it the result of a forum, committee, a person, group?  I'm not questioning the validity, rather in amazement at the volume of what MANY regard as authoritative information on tools.

[lauver]

Oily,

To the best of my knowledge, AA is one guy.  He has and uses quite a large collection of tool catalogs and tools.  These are his primary source of information.  He also supplements his information with patent data, trade name data, court documents, FTC documents, business directories, newspaper articles, and trade magazine ad's.  He's a pretty resourceful guy.

[johnsironsanctuary]

The socket appears to be forged from a 'daisy' shaped blank. My guess would be from an OEM tool kit of some kind. Pretty light duty tool. If put any pressure on it, the 'petals' would spread.
JIS

[OilyRascal]

The socket appears to be forged from a 'daisy' shaped blank. My guess would be from an OEM tool kit of some kind. Pretty light duty tool. If put any pressure on it, the 'petals' would spread.
JIS

Thanks John - I suspected it may have been made by nature of a simplified forging process.  Do you know if this was an "early" process, or just an inexpensive one employed but not during any specific erra?

Oily,

To the best of my knowledge, AA is one guy.  He has and uses quite a large collection of tool catalogs and tools.  These are his primary source of information.  He also supplements his information with patent data, trade name data, court documents, FTC documents, business directories, newspaper articles, and trade magazine ad's.  He's a pretty resourceful guy.

Thanks, Lauver!  One heck of a committed, and busy, person.  Great site.

[johnsironsanctuary]

I'm guessing that it was done for cost. Good strong forged tools have been around for a long time. I'm thinking toolkit for an office machine or something that did not have to be tightened to the yield strength of the bolt. 

[Carl]

The socket looks shop made by welding around a brass blank and grinding back.
What's the flat-to-flat measurement?

[rusty]

Looking closer at it, those almost look like teeth, which would make it something like a drill bit....

[OilyRascal]

The socket looks shop made by welding around a brass blank and grinding back.
What's the flat-to-flat measurement?

1/2" flat to flat, 7/8" OD diameter on socket, 3-1/2" total length, 1/2" OD diameter on stem, 1/4" hole drilled through end of stem (hanger or leverage?)

I believe there is a forge mark that runs the outside perimeter of the socket end, about an 1/8" down from the end.  The "petals" start/stop about the point of that ring, as if something was putting uniform inward pressure around the outside as it was forged.

Also note the socket depth at 9/16" for the flat to flat, then another 1/4" deeper past flats with a 5/16" hole (hollow inside stem past the flat of the socket)

[Carl]

I'm sticking with built-up weld. There is no earthly reason for a manufacturer to forge or hammer weld  just the working end of a socket. Also note that the corners have no radius at all- a forging would not have such defined corners. This looks like a 'Friday night special' - a tool hacked to get the job done before the customer shows up for his car.

[OilyRascal]

Maybe another view may help. 

[Carl]

Can you get a sharper picture? If your camera has a macro setting and you have a tripod, that would work.

[OilyRascal]

Can you get a sharper picture? If your camera has a macro setting and you have a tripod, that would work.

I'll try again.  I apparently have a crap camera, because it was set to close-up and on a tri-pod when I took the picture.