Author Topic: Button Pliers?  (Read 13319 times)

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Offline stanley62

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Button Pliers?
« on: December 11, 2011, 03:20:20 PM »
Never heard of button pliers, but these are marked BUTTON PLIERS.   Maker is J.M. KING & Co, WATERFORD.
  Jim
Always looking for Stanley planes and parts, Mossberg and Plomb wrenches.

Offline kxxr

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 04:04:00 PM »
Funny, while you were posting yours, I was out buying mine. Button Pliers, eh? These are way too rusted and pitted to make out any markings but for a few cents, I couldn't pass them up. Good to know. Yours are a lot nicer than mine, but I wonder if they 'button plier' just as well? Do you have any idea what they are supposed to do?

Offline jimwrench

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 04:08:25 PM »
 Would it help if it said Button,s patent pliers. Don't know date but Sellens shows as Button's patent.
Jim
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Offline jimwrench

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 04:39:20 PM »
According to alloy may be Button type rather than Button patent. Based on patent 67370.
Jim
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Offline rusty

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 04:49:41 PM »

And, as an aside, they are for cutting wire, as opposed to squashing buttons....
Just a weathered light rust/WD40 mix patina.

Offline bird

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 01:57:58 AM »
I actually have a pair of "button pliers."  They don't look the previous pictures, mine are pliers with a round (button like) side, and the other side a regular jaw. I know, don't have a picture of it. But, I went through a lot of research before I figured it was actually meant to fasten the "steel-type" buttons/ snaps on jeans and work uniforms.
Anyhow... random post, of course
cheers,
bird
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Offline Branson

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 09:00:18 AM »
Completely different animal from Button's patent pliers.  The patent is for the wire cutter design, and is found on a number of different pliers, but the majority look like the J.M. KING & Co examples.  The first pair I found had been forge modified as scrolling tongs.  Looked cool but I wondered what they had originally looked like.  I found another pair, un-modified.  Bought them.  Like them a lot.  I just bought two more variations, one by Atlas, and one Barnett. 

Offline mvwcnews

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 11:22:07 PM »
On pg. 14 -15 of  the "Pliers XTRA" that accompanied the December 2011 MVWC Newsletter,  J.M. King, patent no. 67,370 (which is in DATAMP by the way), and other stuff related to the BUTTON PATTERN pliers is reprinted.
 J.M. King claimed to be the original manufacturer of the "BUTTON PLIERS."
 King's early production of the tool was marked "Pat'd July 30, 1867" referring to patent no. 67,370.  Early J.M King ads refer to "Button's Pat. Wire Cutter and Pliers Combined."
The wire cutters on the sides is common to all of the "BUTTON PATTERN" pliers regardless of the maker.   There was an Alphonso Button patent combination tool in 1875 (patent no. 159,561)  but I don't think it has any relation to this enigmatic "Button pattern." -- Stan Schulz, editor Missouri Valley Wrench Club Newsletter

Offline leg17

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2011, 06:57:35 PM »
PaPaw

Can I post a 1,000 word reply on this topic of Button Pliers?
Would that be too big or inappropriate?
Thanks
Tom

Offline Papaw

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2011, 07:51:20 PM »
Go for it!
Member of PHARTS - Perfect Handle Admiration, Restoration and Torturing Society
 
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Offline leg17

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2011, 08:33:24 PM »
MY SPECULATION ONLY

Button’s Pat. Wire Cutters and Pliers.

The patent date seen on ‘Button’ pliers, 30 July 1867, matches Pat No. 67,370 issued to one W(illiam) X. STEVENS of Waterford, Saratoga County, NY.

W.X. Stevens is found in the 1850 census in North Brookfield, Worcester County, Massachusetts.  The data indicates his father to be Perley STEVENS and that William was born around 1835.  Online genealogy confirms his father to be one Perley STEVENS.  Perley STEVENS is found in 1840 in North Brookfield, Worcester County, Massachusetts, and has one male in the family the appropriate age to be W.X.  It seems reasonable that W.X. STEVENS was born in North Brookfield.

In 1860, W.X. is found in Brookfield, Worcester County, a 24 year old single man born in Massachusetts, living with his mother and siblings, and whose occupations is listed as “Engineer“.  In the 1870 census, he is again living in Brookfield, is still single, and his occupation is as a “Machinist/Inventor“.  Genealogy histories show that he married Sally EGBERT of Kentucky and in 1880 he is found in Louisville and living with his father-in-law and new family.  His occupation is listed as “Patent Attorney“.  1900 and 1910 finds him in Washington D.C. as a Patent Attorney.  Later census records show him to be a Patent Attorney in Los Angeles in 1920, with his daughter as his secretary.  I have not found him in 1930 indicating that he may have died by then.  (He would have been 95.)
 
W. X. STEVENS does not seem to be a manufacturer or merchant so much as an “idea man”.  His life’s work seems to be the germination and development of new things which he, apparently, does not utilize himself but, presumably, sells to others for commercial benefit.  His inventions include such diverse items from improvements in fire arms, (pat no. 41,242), to alternate forms of the game of Dominoes, (pat no.139,928).
 
Waterford NY was the home of two companies in those days that made screw-making stocks and dies, and taps.  One was that of Holroyd, established around 1847. The other was J. M. King, established initially, (according to advertisements), in 1829 by a Daniel B. KING.  By the 1860’s, the primary man is one J. M(itchell) KING.  Daniel was about ten years older than J.M. KING.  They were likely brothers.

Screw tap making was a labor intensive undertaking as ‘relief’ had to be hand filed after the taps were fluted.  In 1866, Benjamin F. BEE patented a machine to do this task automatically and the Morse Twist Drill and Machine Company sold taps marked with this patent date.  I have a few in my collection.  Having a way to eliminate the tedious hand process then became an economic competitive necessity for all of the other screw tap makers and many of them came up with a design of their own.

On March 19, 1867, W.X. STEVENS of Waterford NY was issued patent no. 62,977 for a machine to make screw threading taps.  This STEVENS patent is stated as having been assigned to J. M. and D. B. King.  A few weeks later, W(illiam) and J(ames) HOLROYD were granted patent no. 64,420 for a similarly functioning machine.
W. X. of Brookfield was granted patent no. 41,242 in 1864, and patent no. 95,392 regarding a hand vise was granted in 1869 to W. X., also of Brookfield.
 
It seems reasonable then to make the following assumption:
STEVENS temporarily relocated to Waterford specifically to design a machine for the J. M. King company.  STEVENS was probably not “employed” by them but sold the design to his ‘customer’.  He was still home in Brookfield in 1860 and back home by 1870.
 
Waterford was also the home of the L. S. Button Company that made hand pump fire engines.  Lysander BUTTON was born in Connecticut and relocated with the move of the machine shop of John ROGERS from Albany to Waterford NY.  This company was involved with the manufacture of hand pumped fire engines.   ROGERS sold the company to Richard PLATT and Nicholas DOE and by 1835 Lysander was a manager and minor partner.  BUTTON bought half interest from partner PLATT and by 1841 he had acquired full ownership upon the death of the DOE, the other partner.  BUTTON seems to have been an innovator in his own right as the company expanded into other lines and was granted a number of patents concerning improvements to fire engines.  Button engines became well established and in time they added steam powered fire engines to their product line.  Theodore BUTTON, son of Lysander, joined the business and continued to move the company forward.  Lysander BUTTON retired in 1882 and sold the company to the Holroyd Company.  Son Ted apparently continued with the company.  Holroyd sold in 1891 to the new amalgamation the American Fire Engine Company.  L. S. BUTTON had always been highly regarded in Saratoga County and devoted his later years to civic and religious endeavors.  Clearly there was relationship between the King, Button, and Holroyd companies in Waterford, N.Y.

All of this leads to my SPECULATION that William X. STEVENS came to Waterford specifically to design a machine for the L. M. King Company that would produce taps with back relief.  While living there, his fertile mind produced the combination pliers and wire cutters that he patented.  For whatever reason, STEVENS sold the patent to L. S. Button.  Perhaps King was not in position to take advantage.  Perhaps King did subcontract work for Button and encouraged STEVENS to sell to BUTTON. I have only seen pliers marked as made by King with the patent date marked, suggesting that they were made prior to 1884, and that, while King was the producer, the patent may have still been owned by Button.  Other examples are marked ‘BUTTON’ and King, but without the patent date suggesting that King was now owner but wanted to retain the “BUTTON’ trademark.  I suspect that if King had subsequently bought the patent from Button during those early years, he would not have continued to market them as “Button Patent” rather than simply as King.  In any event, the “Button” pattern name persisted and by the turn of the century, others were also making and selling Button pliers.  All of this is simple speculation, based on circumstantial evidence that the “Button” name originated with the L. S. Button Co.

Tom Heseltine
Mount Vernon, KY
17 February, 2011

Offline Branson

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 08:59:31 AM »
Great information.  I instantly liked the pattern and feel of the pair that had been made into a blacksmith's scrolling tool.  Then I found the pair that hadn't been altered.  Then I found two by other makers...

Offline Stoney

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 06:40:23 PM »
I love it, both the details and the subject.  Very informative.  It feels as right as the Button pliers does in the hand.  My first Buttons came to me in '68 and were my father-in-laws.
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Offline Branson

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2011, 08:13:50 AM »
I love it, both the details and the subject.  Very informative.  It feels as right as the Button pliers does in the hand.  My first Buttons came to me in '68 and were my father-in-laws.

There *is* something about how they feel in the hand, isn't there?  They feel substantial.

Offline Stoney

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Re: Button Pliers?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2011, 06:46:19 PM »
Branson they are perfectly balanced.  They just feel right.  I have them in 6" and about 8."
"Never laugh at live dragons" Bilbo Baggins "The
Hobbit"

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."
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