Unknown Die Head ? Thread Restorer ?

[ouray19]

Found this in the back of grandpa's shed and not sure if it is considered a die head or thread restorer. Stamped " No 37 " can't quite make out the complete manufacturer name. Die heads are a set number 29 and include 12 14 16 (NPT I presume) sizes. The handle screws in and out and the heads are adjustable, to open and close on threads. Pretty cool old "multi tool". About 18" long and weighs about 2-1/2 pounds.
Would like any info about who made it and approximate age.
Thanks,
John

[rusty]

rub some chalk on the bottom to the right of the 37, there is faint text there

It says something - Mfg
Chicago Heights IL

There were at least a dozen companies making these things, and they are hard to tell apart....

[Edit] Guessing Canedy Otto

[ouray19]

I believe you are correct. I can barely read "CANEDY OTTO MFG CO" although some of the letters are worn down. Thanks for your help, John

[mikeswrenches]

After looking at your photo's, I realized I was going to have to go to the garage.  I thought I had seen one out there and after a couple minutes, I had it in hand.

Mine is a little different in that it holds 4 dies rather than 3, and they are numbered 10, 12, 14, and 16.  The frame is stamped No. 32B while the dies are marked 37 on the side closest to the long edge of the frame.  The frame also has a 37 stamped on it.  Overall length is 21 7/8 inches.  Based on the way they look, I'd say they are thread chasers rather than thread cutters.

It is marked Holroyd & Co., Waterford, NY.  Never heard of this maker...but then again there is a whole lot I've not heard of.

For those who are interested, Waterford is about 11 mi. North and a little East of Albany along the Hudson River.

Mike

[leg17]

Waterford home to Holroyd, King, and Todd, all makers of similar Threading Tools.
King probably the earliest and most prolific.
Canedy and Otto a little late on the scene but added that tool to their Blacksmith Tools line.

[rusty]

What an interesting company....

Holroyd & Co., Waterford, NY is listed in the 1890 edition of Seeger and Guernsey's Cyclopaedia under axel cutters and screw-plates.

The fate of the company is ambiguous, One source says Lysander Button sold them all his fire engine patents , and the works, and the American LaFrance fire engine company bought them when it bought everyone else in 1900, but there are sources still indexing them in 1913..

There is also a very interesting court case involving J.M.King&Co. King paid Holroyd to not make taps and dies....they made them anyway...King sued...the court decided you can't pay someone just to monopolize trade...(1871)....Mentions manufacture of dies in the 1850's

Edit:
>King probably the earliest and most prolific.
And apparently...the most ruthless ;P

[mikeswrenches]

Thanks Rusty, I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of knowledge on this site and how freely it is shared.

Mike

[nick]

very well said

[Branson]

Just to be clear, this is a die stock, designed to make threads rather than to restore them.  The basic pattern was very common in the mid 1800s.  Standard issue tool in the Ordnance Department arsenals, and even issued for field use by artillery artificers.

[Billman49]

In the days before standard threads, and even after, many smiths and mechanics cut their own threads to non standard sizes - with a die stocks one could cut a tap on a piece of suitable high carbon steel - file it square (no fancy machined flutes - negative rake angle just about worked in soft iron, and much better on brass)... Nuts and bolts were shop made to match each other  - interchangeability didn't come into it...

That was the reason Whitworth in the UK, and Sellers in the USA came up with the idea for standard thread sizes so that nuts and bolts made in different shops, counties, states, or countries would fit each other...

[leg17]

In the days before standard threads, and even after, many smiths and mechanics cut their own threads to non standard sizes - with a die stocks one could cut a tap on a piece of suitable high carbon steel - file it square (no fancy machined flutes - negative rake angle just about worked in soft iron, and much better on brass)... Nuts and bolts were shop made to match each other  - interchangeability didn't come into it...

That was the reason Whitworth in the UK, and Sellers in the USA came up with the idea for standard thread sizes so that nuts and bolts made in different shops, counties, states, or countries would fit each other...

Just to add a bit.
Sometimes called "screwplates" as in the common jewelers type solid plates.
The threads, both internal and external, were not actually "cut" but more "swedged".
Earlier classic usage would be a blacksmith restoring or rethreading an axle shaft and making a new nut to fit.

[ouray19]

Thanks to everyone for the information. Very interesting.

[ouray19]

I would like to clean this up and get it looking good. Been reading some threads on using vinegar and wondering if this would be the best process. So far, I have just used a wire brush to knock off most of the heavy grime but would like to get the rest of the crud off. Any suggestions or input would be appreciated.

[Branson]

What's the grime you want to remove?  If it's just grunge, some 0000 steel wool and mineral spirits ought to do, lacquer thinner if the grunge is really resistant.  The steel wool and a hand held wire brush used with patience and elbow grease will do a lot.  I don't see anything in the photo that would be helped by vinegar. 

[amecks]

After reading this I realized I had something similar. This tool is stamped "Henry Boker". There are stamped on one side the numbers 24,32(double stamped over ?0),42 (Threads per Inch?). Each die is stamped (the first is blank),2,3,4,5,6,7. On the back the dies are all stamped #12. The frame has a really small stamp that may be 22.