Tool Talk
Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Topic started by: lauver on April 12, 2012, 05:39:15 PM
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Gang,
I found an old wood handled screwdriver at the "Dirt Mall" this weekend that followed me home. It looks to be a quality piece of some age, but I need some help identifying this rascal. Most of the finish on the handle is long gone and I suspect the OEM or Brand might have been painted on the handle.
There are some faint stampings on the shank but rust has done it's work in obscuring these stampings. Here's what I can make out:
MULTIGR???... or maybe MULTICR???... I'm just guessing it might be MULTICRAFT, but it's far from certain.
Here's a couple of photos for your inspection:
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo109/lauver_photos/UnknownWoodie1.jpg)
The handle appears to have been stained maroon or mahogany with a lacquer finish over the stain.
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo109/lauver_photos/UnknownWoodie2.jpg)
The metal cap at the bottom of the handle has no stampings on it but is a two-piece affair with an interesting joint in the middle. This might be a clue as to the OEM/Brand.
Any help or leads appreciated (scottg-- feel free to chime in, as you are the king of woodies).
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I think it's a Herbrand MultiGrip.....
(Anyone have an early 50's catalog?)
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I think it's a Herbrand MultiGrip.....
(Anyone have an early 50's catalog?)
rusty,
Thanks for the lead. I may have a few herbrand, bonney, and utica catalogs I can check. Will let you know what I find out.
Be right back...
I'm back... I checked the 1937 and 1966 Herbrand catalogs. Both had wood handled drivers with similar but not exact profiles. There was no mention of the "Multigrip" trade name. I also checked 1937, 1947, and 1967 Bonney catalogs, and the 1966 Utica catalog. Same story as Herbrand.
I don't have any Herbrand catalogs from the 1950s. Perhaps someone else can help fill the 1950's gap.
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The metal cap at the bottom of the handle has no stampings on it but is a two-piece affair with an interesting joint in the middle. This might be a clue as to the OEM/Brand.
Any help or leads appreciated (scottg-- feel free to chime in, as you are the king of woodies).
I've seen this before, but can't remember where. It seems an odd arrangement.
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Branson,
I does seem an odd arrangement, but I'm sure there is some method to the madness that we just can't see yet. Perhaps someone else, maybe scottg, can explain the purpose of this arrangement. He seems to know a lot about these old woodies.
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How about this: It has a "removable" flat blade, that is what that drive notch is for.
Knock it out and put in, say a phillips?
Makes mechanical sense.
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I'm thinking like mrchuck that it's some kind of early multi blade screwdriver. Very interesting find.
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It looks like it could be a Winchester but I don't know who the OEM for them was. There is not much certainty on the topic of who made Winchester branded tools. I don't recall them having the notched sleeve but I do remember seeing it before, just not where. I would have guessed Winchester but danged if I can find a picture that shows it. If it comes to me I'll post, so long as you promise never to call me the "King of Woodies". Not much danger of that tho, I guess :)
I borrowed this picture from http://www.antique-used-tools.com/misc_nonstan.htm
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn48/kxxr/tools/winchester.jpg)
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Here we go, a shot of the notch on a Winchester. Similar but not exact?
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn48/kxxr/tools/winchesternotch.jpg)
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How about this: It has a "removable" flat blade, that is what that drive notch is for.
Knock it out and put in, say a phillips?
Makes mechanical sense.
I think I can find one when I get home. I'll check it out, but as I recall it didn't pull off for a different bit. Makes mechanical sense to work this way, I agree.
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This screwdriver is pictured in my 1916 Motorcycle Riders Supply Company (MORSCO) catalog. Its called a "Champion" and comes in five sizes 2 1/2 to 8 inch (blade length I assume). Same handle pattern and same notched ferrule. Also shown in 1914 Motor-cycle Co-operative Co. catalog. Called "Champion pattern" and only offered in 7 in. overall with a 3 in. blade. Picture shows same notched ferrule but handle pattern is slightly different. No mention of removable or interchangeable blades in either catalog.
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The notch must have something to do with keeping the blade from twisting loose in the handle. Seems like a pretty unique idea they had. Neat little wood handled driver for sure.
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kxxr,
"King of the woodies" is high praise. Have you seen any pic's of scottg's shop? The walls are papered with all manner of wood handled tools. It's impressive.
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Gang,
Thanks for your thoughts on possible OEMs. At this point I'm not ruling any possibilities out. I'm going to try and find some useful documentation (i.e. catalogs with good photos and descriptions, trademark registrations, patent registrations, etc).
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This screwdriver is pictured in my 1916 Motorcycle Riders Supply Company (MORSCO) catalog. Its called a "Champion" and comes in five sizes 2 1/2 to 8 inch (blade length I assume). Same handle pattern and same notched ferrule. Also shown in 1914 Motor-cycle Co-operative Co. catalog. Called "Champion pattern" and only offered in 7 in. overall with a 3 in. blade. Picture shows same notched ferrule but handle pattern is slightly different. No mention of removable or interchangeable blades in either catalog.
Hello, is there any chance I can have a scan of these pages you speak of either posted here or to my e-mail jhason2@yahoo.com Thanks
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kxxr,
"King of the woodies" is high praise...
Just joking around a little :)
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I thought it was a very funny and well played out joke, thanks for having a sense of humor
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I think it is a Champion screwdriver, which would seem to indicate it was resold by anyone and everyone including sears....
http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,1307981.html#image3
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rusty,
That Champion driver in your link looks to be a perfect match. The question now, is who or what is Champion? rc.moto seemed to indicate that Champion drivers were sold by MORSCO. Is Champion an OEM or a trade name?
Also if these same drivers were sold by Sears, about when? I've got lots of old Sears/Craftsman catalogs but having an approximate starting point really speeds the search effort.
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This screwdriver is pictured in my 1916 Motorcycle Riders Supply Company (MORSCO) catalog. Its called a "Champion" and comes in five sizes 2 1/2 to 8 inch (blade length I assume). Same handle pattern and same notched ferrule. Also shown in 1914 Motor-cycle Co-operative Co. catalog. Called "Champion pattern" and only offered in 7 in. overall with a 3 in. blade. Picture shows same notched ferrule but handle pattern is slightly different. No mention of removable or interchangeable blades in either catalog.
Maybe you guys missed this fellas post way back when, he identified it as a champion and has some catalog pages that he is more than kind enough to share with you guys maybe if you asked.
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1930,
I saw his post when he posted it. And I referenced his post in post #18 above. At this point, I'm just trying to figure out who, or what, Champion is, and a general time frame for when these drivers were sold. rc.moto's post places these drivers back as far as 1914-1916, but I suspect they were sold for a number of decades after the teens.
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1930: I had in fact forgotten rc.moto's post (sorry guy) , I stumbled across the pic of the Champion while looking for something else...Yes, I should have reread the entire thread..
However the context is different and adds hints....Putting the two together leads me to a different conclusion than either alone, Mosco probably didn't make them, Champion probably made them at some point and sold them to others, so probably also mosco, 'champion pattern' hints that someone else was also making similar ones.....and the Winchester ones basic similarity but slightly different pattern leads me to believe that more than one company was making that general style also...
Still don't know anything about what is in fact stamped on the OP one tho...
Chas a Strelenger catalog[1896] also shown "the Champion" screw driver, with the notched ferrule.
Sears,1897,P94
EDIT: In my 1897 reprint, it seems to be Pg 80...
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Just to confuse things even more..;P
The applicable patent is perhaps 214,785, issued to Eli Morris, and assigned in half to John A Peckham [1879]. What is interesting is, they sued each other to recover damages of dissolving their partnership after making 2150 screwdrivers.....
So who got the patent after 1880?...
Patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=4lFSAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2
Summary of case: http://books.google.com/books?id=OUkaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA128
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1930,
I saw his post when he posted it. And I referenced his post in post #18 above. At this point, I'm just trying to figure out who, or what, Champion is, and a general time frame for when these drivers were sold. rc.moto's post places these drivers back as far as 1914-1916, but I suspect they were sold for a number of decades after the teens.
Sorry for that, He made the post sorta closer to the begginning and I had assumed somehow everyone had missed it since no-one acknowledged it right away.
Here are the scans he was kind enough to send me and I hope you enjoy them as much as I have even though I guess its not exactly what you are looking for at this point.
I also have a great interest in this little guy as I have some as well that I have been tryin ( not very hard addmitedely because there arent enough hours in the day ) to find more info on.
I know they are small and un-clear, blame it on the site hardware I guess, more than happy to e-mail them to anyone that asks
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1930,
Do any of your Champion drivers have any writing (even partial) on the handle or shaft?
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I dont believe so, will look better tomm night when I have some sunlight and will post back with some pictures as well
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rusty,
1879... wow! I had no idea this design was that old. And thanks for the Sears Catalog date and page number. I will try and see how long Sears sold these drivers. When I got my driver I looked at it and thought 1920's to 1940's. Man was I off just a little...
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Pages 16 and 17 of the 1923 Winchester Catalog, courtesy of Rose Antiques:
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn48/kxxr/tools/wiinch16.jpg)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn48/kxxr/tools/winch17.jpg)
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kxxr,
Thanks for posting the Winchester catalog pages. Now I gotta find me one of those Winchester Pocket Screwdrivers... tres kool.
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Talk about addiction! Isn't just the way, in the process of researching one thing we see something else that we have just "gotta" have. As per another thread focus is very important in tool collecting. The trouble is it just always seems to keeps RE-focusing!!
Graeme
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1930,
Do any of your Champion drivers have any writing (even partial) on the handle or shaft?
Went to work when its dark and come home in the dark ( almost ) will look and post in a little time
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1930,
No rush, just check it when you can. I understand the light thing very well. The older I get the more light and magnification I need to see things, especially small things.
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I wanted to take some good pictures of the T design on the ferrule, they are both the same but my camera isnt as good as it could be.
These drivers look otherwise the same as what you guys are discussing but please correct me if Im wrong.
This is prob. the only place I can get away with sayin this without fear of being committed but the bottom one is my favorite of the two, imagine how long that chunk of the handles been missin and imagine how many years of repeated use it has taken to wear it smooth the way it is now.
When I bough it on a lot of screwdrivers on e-bay the seller did not disclose the break until after the sale, he said he would refund my money if I wanted, I felt a tug right away from that little guy knowing it needed a good home so of course I told him ship it.
Its a possability that these drivers were part of an original early Maxwell tool-kit but at this point thats all it is.
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I went thru my work bench and found these two. I knew the big one would match, but was surprised when the small one did as well. The large one has an eight inch blade, cannot find a makers mark on either. Something about the wooden handles, they follow me home all the time!
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I went thru my work bench and found these two. I knew the big one would match, but was surprised when the small one did as well. The large one has an eight inch blade, cannot find a makers mark on either. Something about the wooden handles, they follow me home all the time!
I have been looking for that 8 inch for some time, if it is avail than I would like to purchase it, Id purchase the set just to keep them together.
Maxwell tool kits describe a long and short and going from desc. that I have have collected comparing tool pouch creases basically 8 inch would be a good number.
If not maybe another will show up
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Gang,
In the process of trying to track the Sears versions of these screwdrivers in the Sears catalogs, I found an interesting tidbit. The 1905 Sears big book catalog listed "Genuine Champion" screwdrivers and indicated they were made by Tower & Lyon. Later catalogs listed both "Genuine Champion" screwdrivers as well as "champion pattern" screwdrivers but made no further reference to OEMs.
I'm not familier with Tower & Lyon or their range of tools. Does anyone know if T&L made screwdrivers? Is T&L a plausible OEM for the Genuine Champion screwdrivers?
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Per Alloy Artifacts-
Tower & Lyon was a tool maker in New York city, active between 1884 and 1916. The company produced a wide variety of wrenches, including adjustable bicycle wrenches and pipe wrenches.
This dates them a little too early for those drivers, I think.
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Speaking of light and magnification. I picked up the bigger of the two screwdrivers tonight, with the ceiling light on. On the shank came to *light* the word, CHAMPION. It is nearly 14 inches overall, nice heft to it.
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john k,
Can you post a photo of your big Champion driver. I'm interested in the handle details, including the patented 2-piece metal cap (or whatever that thing is called), and the"Champion" stamping on the shank.
Glad you got the light right; it makes a world of difference.
By the way, one of the sears catalogs i was looking at showed an illustration of a genuine Champion driver with "Champion stamped on the shank.
Last but not least, what are your thoughts on Tower & Lyon as a plausible OEM?
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>Tower & Lyon as a plausible OEM?
Definite, at least in 1899
From the magazine 'Hardware'
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Gang,
A member on the GG reported that Irwin also sold drivers that matched "Champion Screwdrivers". So here's my best guess on what happened:
Between 1879 and 1899, the owners of Patent 214,785, sold nonexclusive rights to their design to any manufacturer who was willing to pay their fee.
After 1899 when patent protection expired, all interested parties had free rights to this design and produced drivers of this design for decades, perhaps even for a century.
Starting sometime around the 1940's, when plastic handled drivers were growing in popularity, wood handled screwdrivers of all designs began their fade into the sunset.
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Here are a couple of pics of a Champion brand screwdriver.
Brian L.
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RedVice,
Thanks for posting photo's of your Genuine Champion driver. The handle profile and details match my driver handle nicely. Plus the ferrule looks like a match too. The only difference is on the shank where your says Champion and mine says MultiGrip (at least that is what I think mine says).