Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 1930 on July 02, 2011, 05:10:41 PM
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To pick up where I left off on another post I am hoping someone can tell me more about how patents work, I found a patent issue date on the bottom of my tire pump, as it turns out issue date was 1919, I believe the tire pump that I have went thru some design changes as its appearance did not match identically to the 1919 versions pict. I believe the tire pump I have was issued with late 20s early thirties toolkits, would it still have the same patent number stamped on the bottom or would there be a new patent issued when design changes took place on the pump.
Also would this gentleman ( until he decided to sell the rights ) that was granted the patent for stamped sheet-metal base pumps be the only person whom could manufacture a stamped sheet metal base pump?
Its hard for me to believe that this would be possible, I would think that if another manuf. came up with a differently designed sheet metal based pump he could also market this without issues, am I correct?
Thanks for any input
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>would there be a new patent issued when design changes took place on the pump
Utility patents cover *functional* aspects of a thing. As long as at least one function of the pump is what was described in the patent, the patent number would be applicable to iut, and it would have some patent protection. Be carefull using the word 'design', there is a different kind of patent called a 'design patent' (not relevant here, covers just the way a thing looks)
The patent would have been good for 20 years, so untill 1939 it would apply...
>would this gentleman ( until he decided to sell the rights ) that was granted the patent for stamped sheet-metal base pumps be the only person whom could manufacture a stamped sheet metal base pump?
There are 3 questions here....
The patent grants a monopoly on manufacture, only those people he licenced can make any device incorporating the functions described in the patent.
The patent can not and does not exclude the use of sheet metal as a construction material, that is only allowed to be a part of what is described. This particular patent implies a process, which the use of sheet metal makes possible however...(If someone made a pump that worked in the same way, but used, say, thick tinfoil, it would probably infringe the patent)
The patent rights can be licenced to an arbitrary number of others, in theory, hundreds of companies could have had licences to manufacture it. (A prudent inventor would have required them to print the patent notice on them, but this doesn't always happen)
On the other hand, it is not legal to print a patent notice on something that is not in fact patented.
> if another manuf. came up with a differently designed sheet metal based pump he could also market this without issues
To be allowed, it would have to NOT incorporate *any* feature described in the patent, it would also be very risky for a manufacturer to make something that closely resembled the original, as the burden of proof shifts to them if they are sued and the object appears like the patented article...
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Thank- you very much for the detailed explanation Rusty
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Elaborating a bit more, Patent 1290796 covers exactly what the inventor states after "I Claim as new". The legal format by 1929 is very rigid in this respect, nearly all the patents are worded the say way. All the stuff that preceds this is dressing on the window : )
There are four claims, each starts with " A base for pumps comprising a sheet metal body member having a depending marginal flange and also having ..."
The starting phrase describes how the invention is to be constructed, the remainder of each claim describes what is important about each new feature. The construction is weakly protected, the features are strongly protected. (This patent isn't all that well written, it neither claims nor denies the sheet metal flange construction as novel, unfortunatly, the construction method is probably more important here than what was claimed, the duplicate claim is kinda sloppy also)
1)...having apertures adapted to communicate with the pump cylinder and discharge nozzle...
2)...(apparently a duplicate of #1)
3)... a by-pass connecting said apertures with each other
4)... a centrally arranged aperture ... adapted to receive the lower open end of the pump cylinder
So basicly, what is covered in this patent is the use of the space between the 2 pieces of sheet metal to connect the plunger tube to the nozzle, and the fact they are incorporated into the base by leaving a space between the 2 pieces of sheet metal...
This is kinda broad, and probably why culp took out a complete pump patent later, still, it would protect the design of the base plate, to not infringe, you would probably have to design a pump that connected the nozzle some other way,,,
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Very nice, so the one question that pops into my head first of many questions is whom manufactured this pump to supply these toolkits.
I made another post maybe title Auto Specialties, I have collected a few of these pumps and another was delivered today and it has traces of what may be the same color green paint that was used on the Auto Spec. jacks and jack handles that were supplied with many of these Chrysler toolkits.
Coincedance, I dont think so but I have nothing more than that right now.
Strangely enough the green was also used on driveline for certain models of at least Dodge Autos late 20,s.
This is in my opinion a coincedance.
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Keep in mind the number of fast colors available in the 20's was rather limited...
The paint pigments were mostly metal compounds that happened to be a certain color..
It may simply be that green paint was cheap - P
Auto Spec seems to have started out making those sillyu gas mileage improvers that inject hot air into the intake, several companies were selling them, they were rather popular as many early carburators didn't work well ...
There is also a canadian patent actually assigned to the company , for a tire stem thread (don't know what the patent says, only the index data is available)
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In looking thru a Master parts book for trucks published 1934 and looking specifically at a part # that I believe is assigned to the pump that this post was started over I was able to see ABC all models and than a list of models.
Does ABC mean anything to any of you guys, I googled ABC tire pumps and was referanced the ABC automobile and Arthur Boynton Company but was not able to get any further.
Can someone make a connection between ABC being a manuf. of tire pumps late 20s
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Does it say something like 'Code ABC' ?
ABC was a popular telegraph code (A code book allowed you to save money on telegrams by using code words for phrases, the code books had different names, ABC was one of several ....
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Rusty, its about half way down left column, Quite often in these books they will surprisigly list the manufacturer of the tools, especially it would seem with jacks if there was more than one supplier.
I was surprised to find this and am hoping those fingers of yours can work some majic.
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All I want to know at this point is how did that pict. get so big! Just kidding Rusty, I dont want to waste my three wishes on that question : )
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"Automobile topics", Volume 22; Volume 70, 1911
The Artizan Brass Company, of Chicago, make the "ABC" pump, an apparatus of the engine-driven type.
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And since I know what your next question is going to be....
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Very nice Rusty, did you have any indication of date on the second add? Thank-you, that is another start
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The second is from Motor, 1906, I think it is intended to advertise the valve rather than the pump now that I look at it. The company shows up in the patent files also.
909373
http://www.google.com/patents?id=ZqoPAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=Artizan+Brass+Company,+of+Chicago&hl=en&ei=XjAqTvqSBM6lsQLkvMiDCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Artizan%20Brass%20Company%2C%20of%20Chicago&f=false
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Yes, I did notice that on the add but it also advertises the pump. Something does not seem quite right though, they advertise the pump for 5.00 and the other deal for another 5.
Seems way to high especially for 1906. Something is not right. Pumps were as far as I know a 1-3 dollar item in the late 20s max.
I need to see if this company was in buisness still late 20s. At those prices I have a feelling not so it may not be the same ABC.
Depression killed everyone, ABC ( if thats even what I should be looking for ) would have been a strong company to have survived.
Looking at that particular automobile topics it would seem that pump prices were that high, I have several jobber catalogs dated 1929 and 1930 showing pumps 50 and 75 cents.
I did find possibly the same company still in chicago but its tough to tell. Will take tims
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Hmm, odd, it is rather high. In Today-dollars the $5 is over $125, rather pricy for a glorified bicycle pump. 1906 dollars are about double just-before-crash dollars (1920), so even at that it's expensive.....
Aside from the depression, WWI is in there also, many companies got converted for the first war effort also, and never bothered going back to what they were making before...
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Keep in mind the number of fast colors available in the 20's was rather limited...
The paint pigments were mostly metal compounds that happened to be a certain color..
It may simply be that green paint was cheap - P
Um, this isn't entirely accurate. The old colors were fast (non-fading) because, well, they were made from rocks, and a look at the now cleaned Sistine Chapel murals show just about no color change over hundreds of years. A number of metallic oxides produce really rich, vibrant colors. The cadmiums especially have been used to produce vivid reds, yellows, and oranges. Another set of reds (also poisonous) come from mercury based stone like cinnabar. I suspect the green we're talking about has a chromium oxide base, and yes, chromium oxide is cheap. And lasting.
Various "earths" have been used just as long. Yellow ochres, red ochers, umber and sienna date back over 30,000 years, along with carbon blacks. Ultramarine blue began as powdered lapis lazuli. All these colors have been available since the Middle Ages.
Machine colors are also subject to fashion. The late 1800s and early 1900s machines that I've worked with have been almost exclusively painted black -- the big Orton planers and stickers were black. Later, that sort of hunter's green came into fashion. Jaeger used it, Erie Tool Co used it on the pipe vise I just acquired, Faye and Egan machines were green at this same period. The green was replaced by gray, like the American 30 inch planer we used in the old mill shop. That seems to have been followed by a light, somewhat dull, slightly metallic green still favored by some of the Taiwan tool makers.
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I thought I would chime in on the tire pump conversation...even though it doesn't really apply.
There was a company in Indiana, called Arvin, that was owned by Noblitt-Sparks. They were first in Indianapolis, but later moved to Columbus, IN.
They made most of the tire pumps for Ford, especially in the early years. They had patented a continuously automatic, machine welded tube that they used for the body of the pump. The process, and the machinery they invented to make a seamless tube, with the contract to supply pumps for the Ford Model T gave them their claim to fame. If I understand correctly, they made tire pumps for Ford for many, many years. I was told that they were the sole supplier to Ford for tire pumps.
Arvin moved into the car part business, especially with exhaust parts, using their seamless welded tube.
Arvin stayed in business until they merged with a company called Meritor, sometime in the last decade...a sad story how the exhaust business got ran into the ground...thousands of Americans lost their jobs...but the CEO's and money men who orchestrated the deals got big, fat, crazy sized bonuses that were reported to be up to $16 million.