Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: HeelSpur on December 07, 2012, 09:54:24 AM
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Got an old mill stone about 18" wide & 4" thick, I'm gonna try to make a homemade rig to crack my own corn (just for chickens). I'm gonna have a hand crank on the wheel and there will be a base that sits about 3/16" from the wheel for the corn to be cracked against. I have a nice piece of steel that would make a nice base for this but would the corn just slide on the steel between the stone and the steel base and not try to pass through, or maybe a concrete base be better because it has a coarse surface.
Are you confused yet? I could take a pic of the stone if needed.
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I'd think you might be better off with concrete or maybe a badly pitted piece of steel. I made one years ago to crack grain for chickens but I used two old planer feed rolls which were knurled, one end of the rolls had most of the knurling worn off and it would not feed the grain thru. I ended up making my hopper smaller to get away from the smooth part of the rolls and it worked quite well for several years. I had a small elec motor on mine with two jack shafts and sprockets to get the rotation slowed way down.
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I thought they came in pairs?
Each with grooves that were deeper in the center and feathered out to nothing at the edges.
Hammers that looked like welders slag chipping hammers on steroids, that were used to deepen the grooves from time to time, by chipping lightly.
I would try maybe a steel base lined with pavers? Set the pavers close in mortar and build a perimeter to keep them from shifting?
You would still need to build some way to lift the grindstone as it spins for coarse and fine grinding.
yours Scott
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Heres a pic of it.
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/004-4.jpg?t=1354898136)
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Its gonna be up on edge just like that with a shoot narrowing down to the width of the stone.
I do have an old wheel from inside a belt sander I was thinking about too.
Its grooved and may work somehow.
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(http://www.wheatbp.net/WheatBP/Images/Millstone_Anatomy.jpg)
From the same site-- "Perhaps counter-intuitively, millstones do not touch when in operation. There is a gap between the static bedstone and rotating runnerstone which is determined by the size of the grain. Grain is fed from a chute into a hole, known as the eye, in the centre of the runnerstone (Figure 1). An intricate system of groves known as furrows distribute the grain across the millstone surface, and also serve to ventilate and cool the millstones. The grinding surfaces of the millstones are known as lands and are divided into areas called harps (see accompanying diagram). Once ground the flour passes along narrow groves called cracking, and is expelled from the edge of the millstones."
Is this what you are talking about, Scott?
Heelspur, is that a grinding wheel for grain, or sharpening? Looks too fine to grind grain to me.
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Exactly Aaron. Except that was more information than I could have personally provided. heeheheheheeh
I only knew the outline story and what little I picked up repairing antique coffee grinders. Old coffee grinders used cast iron "burrs" btw.
Burr is one name of a millstone. They said the French made the best for generations.
I saw the picture and thought it looked more like a grindstone for sharpening your ax or your knife, myself.
yours Scott
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Looks like it was rigged up as a grindstone but it does have ribs on one side for sure.
Have to look at the second side to see if its smooth or not.
It has circular groves on both sides, so I take it its not a mill stone then.
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(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/011-1.jpg?t=1354904692)
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/010-1.jpg?t=1354904671)
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Heres a couple more items that were with the stone.
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/009-1.jpg?t=1354897920)
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/008-1.jpg?t=1354897908)
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/007-1.jpg?t=1354897717)
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That top one is a combo belt/disk sander that runs off a motor and belt. I saw a powerkraft like that the other day at a shop they wanted $60 for complete with motor.
The bottom looks like a mandrel to run off a flat belt. Looks nice and heavy.
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Got a question about this rig.
I have the stone mounted on a new base I made and used the same wooden mounts that was with it. After I mounted it and started turning the wheel I noticed its out of round about a 1/2".
Now I havn't taken the wheel off its axel or whatever its called, is there a way to center the stone or is the hole in the stone usually the same width as the axel?
I'd hate to have to try and make that stone round but if I do what would be the best way to do that?
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More than likely this is the type of stone you have. An interesting read.
http://www.bereahistoricalsociety.org/site/Sandstone.aspx
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At the tractor shows, and threshing bees I attend, there is usually someone processing corn. They arrive with a pickup load of ear corn, husk the ears, then run them through a hand cranked corn sheller. Then take the shelled corn, fan it, and run it through a small grinder which cracks it. Sometimes they tighten down the burrs in the grinder, or have a second one set up. The corn meal coming out of this second run is good enough to make corn bread from. These are usually cast iron, and attached to a board, they aren't much bigger than a toaster. Some of them have hand cranks, and some are run from the hit and miss engine by flatbelt. I know mills used stones to grind with, but smaller setups usually used a burr grinder. Just my thoughts.
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Found out why the stone is out of wack, it was put together that way.
The wooden donut split on me, but the half on the right has a hole in it where lead was pored through to fill any voids.
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/001-7.jpg?t=1355258428)
This is where the lead was pulled out.
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/002-8.jpg?t=1355258466)
Lead removed exposing the wood that holding the shaft, axil or whatever its called.
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/005-3.jpg?t=1355258670)
Look how far off center it is in the next 2 pics. Now I know why its a 1/2" difference while turning.
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/006-2.jpg?t=1355258888)
Other side.
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/007-2.jpg?t=1355258895)
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I would not have thought that was a millstone, because it is so small, but only a driven millstone needs a square hole. Someone did an unusually awfull job of repurposing it into a sharpening stone LOL
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Heres a photo of some old griststones from central Il.
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I would not have thought that was a millstone, because it is so small, but only a driven millstone needs a square hole. Someone did an unusually awfull job of repurposing it into a sharpening stone LOL
Well I found out today why it was so far off-center. The square hole isn't centered plus it goes thru to the other side at an angle. Its a mess, I measured and measured for hours today and made 2 plugs to fit, but still can't get the hole for the axil centered.
Thinking about filling a 5 gallon bucket with sand, place the stone on top of it and with some measuring, and plumbing, get the axil centered and pour some of that Durham wood filler around the axil. That stuff hardens like concrete and hopefully will hold.
I like a good challenge but had no idea I was gonna go thru all of this. I hope it works.
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Finally got it pretty centered, that Durhams water putty was the answer.
Got a high spot in it so I'm slowly wearing it down.
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/002-12.jpg?t=1357593455)
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/003-9.jpg?t=1357593460)
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j368/wvabe/004-10.jpg?t=1357593558)
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I could see that rigged up with a motor and pulleys to cut the speed down. Would be one serious sharpening tool, maybe even put a water tray on it for cooling while sharpening. Interestingly, Japanese knife and sword makers used similar sized stones turning relatively slow to grind their blades (at least that is what Murray Carter says in his knife making videos).
Good job bringing it back to a usable condition!
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You can see in your photos how the square block was put in the stone -- not a *perfect" fit, and secured with wooden wedges. That's the first step. Once it was the only step, and the block of wood extended far enough to become an axle (Roy Underhill has some photos in one of his books, and Eric Sloane has drawings in some of his -- I think in A Museum of Early American Tools)
Later the block was drilled for a metal axle, like yours.
The question is, is yours out of round, or off center. Sandstone wheels must not be left to stand in water. Notice in the article posted "Once sandstone is removed from the ground and "cured" (that is, its water or "sap" is dried out) it becomes impervious to water, salt..." If it gets soaked in one area, that area will become softer, and will wear more than the rest of the stone. As a result, the wheel will wear more rapidly than the rest of the stone, resulting in out of round. The only way out of this is dressing the stone back to round.
If it is off center, then it needs only to be properly centered. Not such a big deal. Put the wooden center in place and fix it there. After it is installed, then center and drill the axle hole properly. There are drill stands that can rest on top of the wheel and its center block to drill a perfectly perpendicular hole for the axle.
It will still need, probably, a bit of dressing to get it perfect, but nothing like the work necessary to get it out of round.
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Its definitely out of round and is pretty close to being centered now.
So are you saying that if I keep the surface wet I can get it a flat surface faster than dry?
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Its definitely out of round and is pretty close to being centered now.
So are you saying that if I keep the surface wet I can get it a flat surface faster than dry?
No, rather that it having been left to *soak* some time in the past, for some rather long time, the stone in that area had become soft, and that is what put it out of round. Older ways of getting water to the stone when in use were often simply troughs, and if the water wasn't emptied out after use, the stone just sat in it and was softened.
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Its definitely out of round and is pretty close to being centered now.
So are you saying that if I keep the surface wet I can get it a flat surface faster than dry?
No, rather that it having been left to *soak* some time in the past, for some rather long time, the stone in that area had become soft, and that is what put it out of round. Older ways of getting water to the stone when in use were often simply troughs, and if the water wasn't emptied out after use, the stone just sat in it and was softened.
Oh ok, so being left wet softened the stone and it wore the way it is now.
Its gonna take time but I'm gonna slowly attempt to get a flat surface again.