Tool Talk
Woodworking Forum => Woodworking Forum => Topic started by: jimwrench on October 09, 2012, 07:03:41 PM
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I think its working. I've moved from plane collecting to farm wrench collecting. Still have trouble passing up a good plane. Saw a type one Stanley 130 at auction yesterday. Left auction (a Good sign) started back to auction (a bad sign);went to lunch instead (a great sign). I may have this addiction partly under control. There were at least two tool collectors at auction and plane would not have been a steal but I feel good about not going back (I think)
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Jim, be strong. Take it a day at a time, and be sure to always carry some old tools in the truck to fondle if the temptation grows too high. Just yesterday I was in an antique mall. Among other things, I found myself holding a breast drill made by Millers Falls, a six inch monkey wrench, with the adjuster made differently from what I have, and a 1940s electric soldering iron, the iron and the drill were pristine. I held these for close to ten minutes, looking at cast wrenches, branding irons, and drawknives. At the end of ten minutes the light went on that told me I already have 3 or more of each, besides the prices were too dear. So without a bit of hesitation I took them back to their shelf, arranged them attractively, and left the store. I hurt for a few miles, but feel fine now. At home I went straight to the shop and touched several tools, all is better!
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Those 130 models are getting hard to find.... especially if you have a type 1. ..... star on the cap/ Pat'd jan.30.82???? That's awfully tempting!!! I'm in love with planes...... yeah, I don't have a significant other..... so, I'm in love with my tools!!!!! I love planes....... I "collected" them for a purpose. I use planes in my line of work every day. ... from the big 28" (the largest plane that I feel I have control of) plane down to the 1 3/4 " plane. And then, of course there are molding planes. It seems that it's impossible to acquire every type of molding plane..... probably because persons carved a new groove, shaved something here or there to suit the needs of a particularly project. But, with a few molding planes, you can create endless edges, shapes, ........ just try and find a router bit that has that kind of versatility!
My guess is if you've moved from collecting planes to collecting wrenches, it's probably a less expensive habit. Yes, wrenches can be worth a BUNCH of money. But, even a shitty plane costs too much. If you're a woodworker, you've probably obtained the important planes you need already. After that, unless you're incredibly rich, collecting planes is a very expensive addiction. .... of course, I just looked around my office....... I've figured out why I can't walk in this room......................... too many wrenches everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!
However, if you've kicked the "plane addiction" and moved on to wrenches... you're probably better off.
cheers,
bird.
I think its working. I've moved from plane collecting to farm wrench collecting. Still have trouble passing up a good plane. Saw a type one Stanley 130 at auction yesterday. Left auction (a Good sign) started back to auction (a bad sign);went to lunch instead (a great sign). I may have this addiction partly under control. There were at least two tool collectors at auction and plane would not have been a steal but I feel good about not going back (I think)
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I have recovered from a lot of things now. Its definitely the way to go.
But I don't ever want to stop completely.
I paid too much for my education (buying every crap thing I saw for years).
Now I just watch with a much sharper eye. If a great deal on a great tool of practically any kind comes along, I'll pounce.
Otherwise, passssssssss.
I might have watched the type 1 just to make sure it didn't go too cheap.
Adding wrenches is an excellent thing. Just watch out you learn what's what first, and buy slowly!
Otherwise you end up with a ton of dreck and might have passed the great ones as they were offered.
Quantity does not count, only quality.
(believe me, I've been there)
My friend Tony came up with an early hand forged hammer in the French cobblers pattern I had been after for years. Early hand forged I didn't expect to find, ever.
He priced it just below the edge of my budget, but no more (I know he knew it was going to me, just know it)
I hadn't bought a hammer in years (for money that is. I'll take free ones sometimes).
But early swoopy French pattern, hand forged?
Pounce!
yours Scott
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Saw a type one Stanley 130 at auction yesterday.
One of these?....
(http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/brophpix/old%20tools/001-3.jpg)
I don't have a plane problem....I can quit anytime....yeah..... anytime.
....Rob (in plane recovery as well)
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Yep. Didn't have original blade but looked pretty good otherwise.
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Yep. Didn't have original blade but looked pretty good otherwise.
This one has the original blade with the patent dates....but its short. But what can you expect for three dollars.
...Rob
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And thats the Plane truth, sometimes they just call to you, "Buy Meeee"... Nice collection Brophy
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Yep. Didn't have original blade but looked pretty good otherwise.
I don't know if collecting wrenches is any more or less addictive than collecting planes, or if wrenches are generally less expensive to collect. I would think that a mint condition wrench found new in its original box could be a pricey item. Without any apologies, I'm still a very committed Stanley hand plane collector, and probably always will be. That being said, I think you made the right decision to walk away from the type 1 #130 because it no longer had its original cutting iron, or one that was marked with a vintage correct Stanley logo. Sometimes trying to find correct vintage parts that are missing can be frustrating and potentially expensive! I really don't like chasing parts. If one is buying a plane to use then it doesn't matter as long as it gets the job done. However, if the plane is going into a collection, acquiring a complete plane with vintage correct parts in the best factory original condition possible (preferably in its original box) is really the way to go. Planes, wrenches, whatever the tool may be, you're still a collector and I think that's great! Walking away from an incomplete plane WAS the right move if you're a collector. I would have passed on the plane too.
Jim C.
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May have shot myself in the foot. Went back to Mon auction to see who bought the 130. First collector said "I didn't stay to see it sell";Second collector said"I didn't even see it." Ring man said "I don"t remember what it brought" Interpreted means it didn't bring a lot or He would have remembered it. Probably missed a bargain,but now I don't have to search for a blade for it.
I guess I have enough parts to search for;presentlly on hunt for fence for Stanley 378;knob and tote for Stanley No.2;lever cap(with B casting mark) for Stanley 104.
I guess Jim C is right (buy complete planes)
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May have shot myself in the foot. Went back to Mon auction to see who bought the 130. First collector said "I didn't stay to see it sell";Second collector said"I didn't even see it." Ring man said "I don"t remember what it brought" Interpreted means it didn't bring a lot or He would have remembered it. Probably missed a bargain,but now I don't have to search for a blade for it.
I guess I have enough parts to search for;presentlly on hunt for fence for Stanley 378;knob and tote for Stanley No.2;lever cap(with B casting mark) for Stanley 104.
I guess Jim C is right (buy complete planes)
Jim,
I'm not entirely sure that I'm "right." I'm just not interested in chasing around for parts. The beauty of most Stanley models is that parts can be mixed and matched between various eras and the planes work absolutely fine. This is definitely the case with plane irons. It was expected that an iron would eventually be sharpened, honed, ground, etc. to the point that it would have to be replaced by a new iron logically from a later era. I've got a few user quality planes with some mixed and matched parts that work absolutely fine. One of my favorites to change is the brass blade/iron depth adjusting wheel on the back of bench plane frogs. I like the small wheel, but as you know, later planes came with a larger wheel. Anyway, if you're buying a user plane, who cares about it having all vintage correct parts. Still, even some user planes with missing parts can be difficult and expensive to find. For example, the fence for your #378 could be one of those hard parts to find in user or collector condition. As for collector quality planes, I try to buy the VERY BEST I can afford, and I'm VERY picky. Any plane missing any of its original parts, or having parts that are not vintage correct, are not considered. Unless I know FOR SURE that I can acquire that part in collector condition, and at a reasonable price, I'll pass every time. I also avoid planes that have been refinished, cosmetically touched up, or altered in any way. I won't even buy a user plane that's been refinished or over cleaned with a wire wheel, etc. Broken parts (particularly rosewood totes and knobs) are a deal killer for me too. Although they're still relatively abundant, they can be expensive. I don't know if I'm happy or sad that you're a recovering plan collector, but as you can see, I'm still very much addicted!
Jim C.
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I'm kind of like jimwrench I have around 400 planes but probably haven't bought one in 8 or 10 monthes. I have allways collected a little bit of everything in the way of tools but in the last couple of years it has been mostly wrenches. I sure agree with jimc that buying an incomplete plane is not a good idea. I do have a few that I am just about ready to give up on. Before the days of Ebay I would buy just about anything because up in Canada there is not much around so you'd grab what you can whether it was complete or not. I do have have a few various parts so let me know what you guys are looking for and I'll have a look. I am looking for a lever cap for a transistion plane I think in 1 1/2'' wide version, I'm in Oregon right now and can't remember off the top of my head which number and type it is. I'll update this when I get home. I went to a used tool store in Portland today to have a look and I didn't find any planes They only had a couple of junkers but I did get over well over 100 wrenches, 4 -1/4'' ratchets, 2- 1/4" flex bars, 6 various pliers and a couple of other items. I'll post a list of what I got when I get it sorted out. I am only really looking for about 3 different brands so the majority is for trade material. I know for example that I got about 20 Penns wrenches so I if anybody is looking for them let me know. Later. Jim
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I take another approach. If the planes are broken or missing parts I buy 'em -if- they are cheap. I've maintained a plane junkyard for years in an old file cabinet in my shop and it's worked out very well.
There are plenty of planes in Canada, you just have to look for them. I've found Stanley 1-8, plain and corrugated (excluding 2C and 5 1/4C) in the wild at garage sales and flea markets. And most of the Bedrocks...even a 602C.
Not all are perfect, but I don't need them to be. I don't have a lot of money in them and I don't view having them as an investment. I don't even know how many I have...the Mrs counted over 500 at one point but I've sold most of them off, keeping a couple hundred of my absolute favorites.
I -don't- buy planes on eBay and limit myself to one or two at the annual tool show. The thrill is in the hunt.
This is my Stanley #1....
(http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/brophpix/old%20tools/forgery2-1.jpg)
...it cost $3.50 CDN/3.58USD at a garage sale.
Next to it is a fake I made to turn into a drawer pull for a friends toolbox...
(http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/brophpix/old%20tools/ernie3-1.jpg)
I'm not saying anyone's approach to buying tools is wrong, just that there are other ways to go about it if you don't have big bucks.
...Rob
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Rob. A little clarification. When I say there are not many planes in Canada I should have said where I live in Canada. I am In the small city of Prince George which is in the central interior of British Columbia. We are about 500 miles north of Vancouver and the border. This area of our country was not really settled until the railroad came thru around the end of the first world war.Our city to this day only has a population of about 80,000. Prior to this it was mainly natives, prospectors and trappers.There is a statistic which reads something like 70% of the Canadian population lives within 100 Miles of the US border and that I agree is where you can find lots of old tools. Jim
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I understand what you are saying Jim, but there must be some old tools around there somewhere. The railroad folks didn't show up with Skilsaws and cordless drills :-) Someone must have built the city. Also, the folks who moved there (likely from near the border) wouldn't come empty handed...everyone has a toolbox of some sort.
Most of the tools I find here are post WW1 and the majority of handplanes are Canadian made, so that kinda deflates the US border idea.
If you convince yourself there are no tools to be had, you're not going to find any. How many yard/estate/garage sales do you hit on a Saturday? How many flea markets? How many antique dealers/pickers are you on a first name basis with?
...Rob (originally from Woodfibre BC, near Squamish)
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80,000? You are kidding me, 80,000? 80 thousand is as much tools as you could ever stand.
Somewhere right now, tools are trading hands at 80,000.
I got a lot of my oldest (been in my possession the longest) tools from towns around 80,000!
80,000 is where I used to travel to once or twice a year, to look for tools!
Geeze, its a huge town!!
I live in 2,000 or less, by the way.
And its the "big town" at least 75 miles in any direction.
I'd kill for the tool selection of 80,000.
yours Scott
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May have shot myself in the foot. Went back to Mon auction to see who bought the 130. First collector said "I didn't stay to see it sell";Second collector said"I didn't even see it." Ring man said "I don"t remember what it brought" Interpreted means it didn't bring a lot or He would have remembered it. Probably missed a bargain,but now I don't have to search for a blade for it.
I guess I have enough parts to search for;presentlly on hunt for fence for Stanley 378;knob and tote for Stanley No.2;lever cap(with B casting mark) for Stanley 104.
I guess Jim C is right (buy complete planes)
Hi Jim,
You mentioned that you were looking for a fence for your Stanley #378. That really could be a tough part to find. The entire fence assembly includes several small parts. Actually the entire plane is a "parts nightmare" if you're serious about putting together a complete example. Along with the multiple fence assembly parts, the plane also came with four different depth stops, a couple cotter pins (for who knows what purpose?) , four nickel plated thumb screws and a couple washers. It makes me wonder what the Stanley designers were thinking when they came up with this model? They had to know that all those little parts were destined to be lost and separated from the plane. Anyway, I've attached a couple pictures so you can generally see what you're looking for. I know the pictures aren't great, so if you need some that are better, let me know and I'll try to get some close ups of the parts you might need. Earlier I mentioned that I don't like chasing parts, and that still holds true, but I did have to track down one of the four depth stops for this particular plane. Sometimes you just can't avoid it. When I bought this plane, I knew it was missing that one part, but I had never seen another one in the same mint condition with nearly all of its original parts. Anyway, I broke my own rule and bought it, although it was incomplete. I ended up contacting an ADVANCED collector who was able to track the part down for me. I hope you can also find the parts you're looking for and get that #378 back to good.
Jim C.
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"Show off!!!!" just kidding. Well, not about being jealous.
cheers,
bird.
Saw a type one Stanley 130 at auction yesterday.
One of these?....
(http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/brophpix/old%20tools/001-3.jpg)
I don't have a plane problem....I can quit anytime....yeah..... anytime.
....Rob (in plane recovery as well)
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Rob. I was not trying to get into an arguement about where there are or are not old tools. I am not saying there are no tools up in my area I just saying there are lots more in bigger cities,it only makes sense. Right. I spent the last 40 years running a construction company that worked all over northern BC and Alberta, so up until I retired in late 2008 I knew the location of the majority of the 2nd hand stores, antique shops and auction yards in these area and visited them whenever I was in the area. I remember woodfibre with fond memories, my father was a Boilermaker and worked the pulp mill shutdowns. In the summers when I was out of school I would go with him and we would fish and hunt in his off time. We lived in Vancouver at that time and Woodfibre and Bowen Island were two of our favorite deer hunting areas. That No 1 you have is a beauty and for $3.50, a hell of a deal
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Hi Gibsontool,
I didn't mean to sound terse or short...sorry if I caused any grief. It wasn't my intent to pick a fight, just to offer an alternate point of view.
A lot of guys will swear there are no tools around here but they don't know how to look for them... they show up at a flea market in the afternoon or at a yardsale on the second day.
You are one of about a dozen people I've run into in my life who know about Woodfibre. We moved when I was quite young so I have no memories but it sounds like quite a place.
The $3.50 #1 was a once in a lifetime find. The funny part is, while I was buying the plane and running it back to the truck, my Missus bought a radial arm saw that she thought we needed for our home shop.
Sorry again for the misunderstanding.
...Rob
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No problem Rob, sounds like you got a damn good woman there. Cograts. Jim
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I know what you mean about finding tools, gibsontool.
I've been going to estate auctions all my life, and I still have never found a Stanley 45 or 55 in my area. It is rare to see wood molding planes, and the very few of those that I've seen were in awful shape.
Sure, a person can find #4's, #5's, and quite a few #110's, but finding anything different from that seems to not be out there in my area. Wrenchs, though, are plentiful and very common, but you just don't see wood planes every day.
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I know what you mean about finding tools, gibsontool.
I've been going to estate auctions all my life, and I still have never found a Stanley 45 or 55 in my area. It is rare to see wood molding planes, and the very few of those that I've seen were in awful shape.
Sure, a person can find #4's, #5's, and quite a few #110's, but finding anything different from that seems to not be out there in my area. Wrenchs, though, are plentiful and very common, but you just don't see wood planes every day.
That's probably true for several reasons. The basic bench planes and simple block planes like those you mentioned were probably all that most home owners and DIYers ever needed. I've had similar experiences. All I see is mostly the common stuff, and it's often in rough condition. Back in the day, a #4 or a #110 was cheap and they got the job done. Spending the money on a complicated plane like the #45 probably didn't make sense for most people, unless one was a cabinetmaker or finish carpenter. The average homeowner probably didn't buy those planes and that's why they don't show up at estate sales, garage sales, etc. They're out there, but you have to keep hunting, and hope for some luck.
Jim C.
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I think you are right on the money, Jim C.
You would think though, that after all of these years of going to estate sales, at least one or two #45's, or even parts of those, would show up once.
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One thing is for sure..... we're a bunch of passionate persons about tools! I'm glad I have this community!
Hi Gibsontool,
I didn't mean to sound terse or short...sorry if I caused any grief. It wasn't my intent to pick a fight, just to offer an alternate point of view.
A lot of guys will swear there are no tools around here but they don't know how to look for them... they show up at a flea market in the afternoon or at a yardsale on the second day.
You are one of about a dozen people I've run into in my life who know about Woodfibre. We moved when I was quite young so I have no memories but it sounds like quite a place.
The $3.50 #1 was a once in a lifetime find. The funny part is, while I was buying the plane and running it back to the truck, my Missus bought a radial arm saw that she thought we needed for our home shop.
Sorry again for the misunderstanding.
...Rob
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I wish I were around when the average person/ DIYer had planes!
cheers,
bird.
I know what you mean about finding tools, gibsontool.
I've been going to estate auctions all my life, and I still have never found a Stanley 45 or 55 in my area. It is rare to see wood molding planes, and the very few of those that I've seen were in awful shape.
Sure, a person can find #4's, #5's, and quite a few #110's, but finding anything different from that seems to not be out there in my area. Wrenchs, though, are plentiful and very common, but you just don't see wood planes every day.
That's probably true for several reasons. The basic bench planes and simple block planes like those you mentioned were probably all that most home owners and DIYers ever needed. I've had similar experiences. All I see is mostly the common stuff, and it's often in rough condition. Back in the day, a #4 or a #110 was cheap and they got the job done. Spending the money on a complicated plane like the #45 probably didn't make sense for most people, unless one was a cabinetmaker or finish carpenter. The average homeowner probably didn't buy those planes and that's why they don't show up at estate sales, garage sales, etc. They're out there, but you have to keep hunting, and hope for some luck.
Jim C.
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By the way, and for what it's worth, and as a side note, I attend a bunch of estate auctions and sales, and try to average about 2 per week.
I've literally...no kidding...have attended hundreds of auctions, and I've still never found a Stanley 45.
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They're out there, but you have to keep hunting, and hope for some luck.
No matter where you are, there were always the unwanted Christmas gifts!
Giving a relative you didn't particularly like, a tool he couldn't use, or maybe not even know what it was?? Is a really really old joke.
Many tools we desire, were --all-- probably unwanted gifts once.
Never used, thrown in the attic and forgotten?
The tools that got used are well, used.
Any 100 year old tool you see in good shape now?
Well 8 out of 10 it was something nobody particularly wanted in the first place.
From never to hardly ever used at all.
People now, in this day and age,
mostly collect the "white elephant tool" given to Uncle Jim,
and snickered about for some years, around the family fireplace.
I own two of these tools I can guarantee were unwanted gifts. A Stanley 605 and a Stanley #65 low angle knuckle cap block.
These two belonged to a friend of mine Milton Kevershan.
Milt was about as likely to start a working workshop, as a rhinocerous is to dance the hully gully.
Milt had a long life and a lot of relatives though. Between them, they gave him tools as presents for years and years. I saw them all. A whole lifetime of Sears or Wards or the corner hardware.
Milt had a little more money then some, so he got a little better presents and the better brands or at least the midline brands, were represented.
I worked on Milts workshop. A shop he had built in his latter years.
Someone else built it, (at 37 cents an hour most usually, Milt was someone you did business with -very- alertly)
but I made it work in the end.
Usual thing. He'd sucker in some schlub to do most of the work and then after they bailed, he paid me strict cash, buy the hour, due at every days end...... to finish up.
yours Scott
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I've literally...no kidding...have attended hundreds of auctions, and I've still never found a Stanley 45.
I wanted a Stanley 45 for years. Searched antique shops, flea markets and hundreds of garage sales for one at a reasonable price. And where do you think I found my first one? Four houses away at a yard sale. It wasn't out on the table but I bought a common #4 or 5 or something and the fella asked 'so....you use those things?' And after a brief conversation, he went to his basement and came out with a nice 45 and a box of blades for fifty bucks. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Then, on the very next saturday, at another garage sale I found another 45 in pieces on a table...I held up the bits and the owner said 'ten bucks'. Ten bucks was paid and he chased after me as I was leaving to give me a jar of blades (and wouldn't take any money for them).
After that, 45s and 55s seemed to pop up regularly.
I strongly suspect that your first 45 is the most difficult one to find.
...Rob
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I wish I were around when the average person/ DIYer had planes!
cheers,
bird.
I tend to think that "WE" are the average people. There are still many, many user quality planes, including 45s, out there for US to find, use, and then pass to the next generation of average people who want to find and use them. I admit that the top collector quality planes are much harder to find. I think those types of planes are in limited supply, and they get buried in "collections" for years. Depending on the collection a particular planes goes into, could potentially mean that it's off the market for decades. Literally. I'm in my fifties, and have had some collector quality planes for twenty years already. My dad is thankfully still living. If I make it to his age, some of my top quality collector planes will have been in my collection for more than SIXTY years! When an old timer passes, his/her collection is usually dispersed among other collectors, and once again, those top notch planes are held in private collections for decades. Collector quality planes are out there, but one really must stay on top of things in order to find them and acquire them.
Jim C.
I know what you mean about finding tools, gibsontool.
I've been going to estate auctions all my life, and I still have never found a Stanley 45 or 55 in my area. It is rare to see wood molding planes, and the very few of those that I've seen were in awful shape.
Sure, a person can find #4's, #5's, and quite a few #110's, but finding anything different from that seems to not be out there in my area. Wrenchs, though, are plentiful and very common, but you just don't see wood planes every day.
That's probably true for several reasons. The basic bench planes and simple block planes like those you mentioned were probably all that most home owners and DIYers ever needed. I've had similar experiences. All I see is mostly the common stuff, and it's often in rough condition. Back in the day, a #4 or a #110 was cheap and they got the job done. Spending the money on a complicated plane like the #45 probably didn't make sense for most people, unless one was a cabinetmaker or finish carpenter. The average homeowner probably didn't buy those planes and that's why they don't show up at estate sales, garage sales, etc. They're out there, but you have to keep hunting, and hope for some luck.
Jim C.