Tool Talk

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Papaw on September 29, 2012, 09:24:49 PM

Title: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Papaw on September 29, 2012, 09:24:49 PM
Does anyone have any word on AA  and their "personal time off"?

I had an email asking me and I don't know any more than I read on their contact page.
http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/contact.html (http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/contact.html)
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: rusty on September 29, 2012, 10:07:35 PM

No, been that way for quite a while now, someone is still maintaining the site and updating minor things from time to time, but no contact email. Perhaps annoyed by the slobbering masses asking for ebay pricing all the time, dunno....

Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: snapmom on September 30, 2012, 05:20:07 AM
He has not purchased any tools on ebay for like six months.  I will try to find out.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: amertrac on September 30, 2012, 06:00:24 AM
We can not afford to loose  AA . iF IT COMES DOWN TO THAT i THINK ENOUGH OF US CAN HELP WITH AN ANNUAL DUES SORT OF THING   BOB W.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: OilyRascal on September 30, 2012, 06:28:31 AM
Since my involvement with tool collecting, I've recognized it has a risk of not being sustained.  Anything that "closed door" has a limited life - IMO.  Don't get me wrong, I know there is some powerful stuff there, but I worry about its lifespan.

I'm a huge fan of "open source"; that is, divulgance of all information, pride of peer recognition  for "free" work by those who love the subject, open for all contributions of subject area expertise/knowledge, multiple work paths in parallel, and with defects more readily found and corrected.

We have the community of knowledge.  What is missing is the data capture and presentation layers.  I often feel the net needs a "wiki" of tools.  As an example - I know that I could tell a fact-based NYE Tool & Die and Thorsen Tool Co. story unlike any other published on the net......but where am I to do that other than in a top-down thread here (where someone like me is liable to come along and chat about their tire wear).  I have no doubt there are many members here in the same situation; authoritative in their field of tool collecting focus, but with limitations in how it may be shared with the world.

I'm sitting back for now observing - but when this problem "bothers" me enough I'm taking a stab at leading it.  This is not a problem "one man" can fix, and a "one man fix" is not sustainable IMO.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Papaw on September 30, 2012, 08:35:15 AM
I would think one of the big wrench collector organizations would be able to run it.
Has he collected all those tools?
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: snapmom on September 30, 2012, 01:24:44 PM
Yes, I think all but one pic on his site are his tools. 
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: scottg on September 30, 2012, 01:49:17 PM
DAT was started (directory of American Toolmakers) by my friend Bob Nelson and several others, and then became DATAMP
http://www.datamp.org/ (http://www.datamp.org/)
 
 This should be our model. I am willing to help a little (in my limited way) if we would strive to build an open source mechanics tool haven.

 I corresponded with the AA guy (don't remember his name offhand) long before the site got so big and popular.  He wasn't easy to get along with even then. Didn't want my pictures of stuff he didn't have, even offered freely.
 The site will definitely go down eventually. One man shows don't last. 
 I have seen it happen with many others.
 
 The first big electrolysis how-to site is totally gone. (I did some work on that one)
 The big sawset directory is gone.
 The Stanley plane dating /timeline pages and the original make your own spokeshave pages were rescued by grace of the Wayback and resurrected, at least mostly.
 The first big Millers Falls site is iffy. Comes and goes. 
On and on.

  Galoot Image Central is basically gone.
  Jim Esten dumped it one day out of the blue, but Wiktor Kuc is propping it up long enough for everyone to move their images.  Should you have pictures there you don't have copies of, get them now.
 Speaking of which Wik's wkfinetools.com (http://wkfinetools.com) is by far the largest of its type on the net, and could be simply walked away from, at a moments notice.

 No one has said anything, but Eric's Disstonian Institute is so big and beautiful and important now, it desperately deserves to be supported and saved no matter what happens.

 The web is terribly large now but still terribly fragile.
Kitty could close down. Hundreds of original animated characters could simply disappear from human knowledge. Not like books, there is no real backup for future generations to find and savor.

 History will mark us as,
  The internet pioneers, much of which has been lost.
    yours Scott
 

Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: bonneyman on September 30, 2012, 04:45:36 PM
We can not afford to loose  AA . iF IT COMES DOWN TO THAT i THINK ENOUGH OF US CAN HELP WITH AN ANNUAL DUES SORT OF THING   BOB W.

I agree we can't lose the resource that is AA.

I check in there from time to time, waiting to see if he's back from his "adventure". Still no word from him. Beginning to wonder.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: 1930 on September 30, 2012, 05:01:33 PM
You forgot to mention the crash of tool talk 2011
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Papaw on September 30, 2012, 07:16:33 PM
I think Tool Talk is better backed up now, but things happen.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: OilyRascal on September 30, 2012, 07:30:16 PM
I think Tool Talk is better backed up now, but things happen.

YES - When my first child was born I started watching pictures taken galore and in this day of digital photography I got paranoid.  I purchased a dedicated "server" with 4 hard drives in a raid 5 array.  I had a data replication method in place to "instantly mirror" it to a sister server; that itself had two hard drives mirrored.  Both had tape backups also.  They were stored in a raised floor server room I had built on the first floor of the house.  Rack mounted.  Fans galore.  It was climate controlled independent of the house, and power conditioned.

I have lost my pictures of my first born's first 8 months.  In all my thinking, I never considered divorce.

Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: clovis on September 30, 2012, 10:34:30 PM
AA is, in my estimation, one of the best sites ever created.

I'd hate to lose that site.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Neals on October 01, 2012, 02:33:26 AM
I agree AA is a very valuable site. It would be a blow to lose it. I think a group to assist or take over sites that the owners are unable or unwilling to maintain is a workable idea. I have little idea what it would require.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: oldtools on October 01, 2012, 03:32:04 AM
I use AA first to look-up information, it would be a great loss of information if it went off.
anyway it can be archived? so in case it turns off, the information isn't lost.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: rusty on October 01, 2012, 07:46:38 PM
>a group to assist or take over sites that the owners are unable or unwilling to >maintain is a workable idea. I have little idea what it would require.

A complete rewrite of broken copyright law....
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Papaw on October 01, 2012, 08:00:56 PM
The owner would have to agree, and  either sell or give away the rights.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: scottg on October 02, 2012, 01:44:43 AM
 
>a group to assist or take over sites that the owners are unable or unwilling to >maintain is a workable idea. I have little idea what it would require.

A complete rewrite of broken copyright law....
The owner would have to agree, and  either sell or give away the rights.

Nope its his, and I would defend that for all I'm worth.
 If he retires and didn't want to be involved in a new undertaking, we would have to start over from scratch.  He owns his research and page layout etc., but the history represented doesn't belong to anyone.
  We would have to ferret it out by ourselves. Start over from the beginning. 

He did it all alone. It took years.
A dedicated group, each having resources and talents to draw on, could do it phenomenally quicker.
  yours Scott
 
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Papaw on October 02, 2012, 02:00:05 AM
Quote
Nope its his, and I would defend that for all I'm worth.

As would I , and I hope all of us here.
I don't suppose any of us know him well enough to check on him personally?
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Neals on October 02, 2012, 05:18:56 AM
I wasn't saying the group should steal the site. I would think that some of the owners of the free access sites would be only to happy to have the site outlive them. I know of no reason that the copywrite owner couldn't transfer the copywrite or internet publishing right to anyone he chooses
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Papaw on October 02, 2012, 05:34:27 AM
I wonder what price it would bring. Just for the content, not the tools themselves, I'm not sure any of us could afford that collection.
I always wondered who owns it and if the tools are ever on display?
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: amertrac on October 02, 2012, 05:57:54 AM
I think Tool Talk is better backed up now, but things happen.

YES - When my first child was born I started watching pictures taken galore and in this day of digital photography I got paranoid.  I purchased a dedicated "server" with 4 hard drives in a raid 5 array.  I had a data replication method in place to "instantly mirror" it to a sister server; that itself had two hard drives mirrored.  Both had tape backups also.  They were stored in a raised floor server room I had built on the first floor of the house.  Rack mounted.  Fans galore.  It was climate controlled independent of the house, and power conditioned.
  I have pictures of my great grand  children from somogram to 2 year olds there has to be several hundred on my computer.I have put them on disks but I have not deleted them from the computer cause I like to look every once in a while. My computer is starting to slow down from all the tools and baby pics I will have to start deleting or it will stop.  bob w.

I have lost my pictures of my first born's first 8 months.  In all my thinking, I never considered divorce.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: snapmom on October 02, 2012, 05:02:04 PM
I emailed him, and got a reply.   His long time girl friend passed away, and he has lost interest in tools right now.

So, I sure he is hurting right now, we should just give him some time.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: oldtools on October 02, 2012, 05:05:51 PM
My Condolence, hope he recovers
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: bgarrett on March 29, 2013, 09:50:53 PM
Is there any new information on the Alloy Artifacts website? I have some tools  that fill in gaps. I know his pics are his tools but he has GAPS, big ones that we could help fill.

Does anyone know of wrenches with wrong sizes on them?

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8106/8602317448_24ce1b3381.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34245039@N00/8602317448/)
wrong sizes (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34245039@N00/8602317448/) by farmgate (http://www.flickr.com/people/34245039@N00/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: snapmom on March 31, 2013, 05:40:19 AM
Is there any new information on the Alloy Artifacts website? I have some tools  that fill in gaps. I know his pics are his tools but he has GAPS, big ones that we could help fill.

Does anyone know of wrenches with wrong sizes on them?

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8106/8602317448_24ce1b3381.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34245039@N00/8602317448/)
wrong sizes (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34245039@N00/8602317448/) by farmgate (http://www.flickr.com/people/34245039@N00/), on Flickr

Maybe its a whitworth.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: leg17 on March 31, 2013, 08:50:37 AM
The bigger opening is marked with the smaller size.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: rusty on March 31, 2013, 09:50:23 AM
>The bigger opening is marked with the smaller size.

-factory, 1952-

"Hey, I got another load of wrenches, where's the QA guy?"
"He's out at the coffee wagon"
"Oh, what should I do with these wrenches?"
"I dunno, throw them in that box over there"
"OK"
...
"Hey I got another load of wrenches, where's the QA guy?"
"They fired him"
"Oh, that's too bad, I wonder why?"
"Dunno"
"So...what should I do with these wrenches?"
"I dunno, throw them in that box over there"
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: bgarrett on March 31, 2013, 06:39:54 PM
Its the only wrench I have that has the sizes marked on the wrong ends
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: mr.x on April 01, 2013, 10:18:58 AM


"He did it all alone. It took years."

 
[/quote]

Uhhhhh, kind of.....He created and ran a great site, it was his vision and he I can't even imagine how much time he had to spend on the administrative and technical end or just replying to every Joe Swapmeet  Emailing him with their latest find or appraisal request.  He's also a very sharp detective with all the research and analytical skills that would imply.
  It's interesting how if you find yourself in a conversation with someone relating to early 20th century mechanic tools you can tell just by their knowledge level whether they're familiar with the AA site or still stuck in the "dark ages". Having said that you can also tell if they're ONLY familiar with that site and go on about 4th connecting rod wrenches and fan pulley sockets without knowing what the hell those items even are.
 OK, back to my point. A significant amount of the information and research on different companies was provided by others, including I know for a fact, at least one individual who has already posted on this thread. This is just a fact and to steal a phrase from "A Knights Tale" is beyond contestation.
 That's not to take away anything form the site. The creator of the site (I'm not sure he wants his name out there) IMO has done more for early 20th century mechanic type tool knowledge, research and collecting than anyone. If every Ebay seller that's "borrowed" directly from his site had to fork over 1% of their net, he'd be all set.

Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Papaw on April 01, 2013, 04:22:18 PM
It's all about the love of the game, not profit.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Chuck Garrett on March 03, 2015, 09:48:39 PM
OW!  I didn'texpect to start such a thread.  I have a significant amount of tool history I have accumulated and wanted to share.  I am against keeping secrets.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: oldtools on March 06, 2015, 11:07:52 PM
Chuck;
You can share your tool history with us, We have lots of knowledgeable people here...
I think Alloy Artifacts was the greatest site, So much information & history.. Amazing work...
Sorry to lose the creator/curator..  but life goes on...
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: eddie hudson on March 07, 2015, 08:01:12 AM
Did I miss something here about AA?
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Papaw on March 07, 2015, 08:57:36 AM
Eddie- The last we have heard was that the owner of AA had some bad things happen to him in life and he has not been active lately.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Charles Garrett on March 07, 2015, 09:47:49 PM
  I try to share info from time to time .  What I had in mind was to have photo evidence and documents shared in a media like AA as some of it is quite extensive.
Title: Re: Alloy Artifacts
Post by: Bill Houghton on March 09, 2015, 03:46:56 PM
The web is terribly large now but still terribly fragile.
Kitty could close down. Hundreds of original animated characters could simply disappear from human knowledge.
People could stop posting cute cat videos to YouTube.

Nah.  Never happen.

 :shocked:

I agree with Scott.  The Wayback machine is an attempt, but imperfect; and not always easy to use.  There was stuff on the web I really appreciated, but the person who put it up didn't/couldn't continue to support it, so it's gone damitol.

Libraries are imperfect, too.  Yes, books last forever if not exposed to weather/bookworms/other disasters.  But libraries run out of room and choose to get rid of "nobody read this stuff" books.  When we first moved to this county, the library system had a lot of older (we're here talking early 20th century) "how to" books.  I recall one about house building that contained the immortal line, "A man with a hammer and a (hand) saw can build a house by himself."  Hand most modern youths that kind of toolkit, without a skilsaw, chopsaw, jobsite table saw, etc., and watch 'em faint.  Having that historical perspective was helpful to me, although it also warped me into some prejudice agin modern tools that I've since come to appreciate for what they do.  Still don't like framing nailers.