Tool Talk

What's-It Forum => What's-It Forum => Topic started by: BoatGuy on June 15, 2011, 09:03:56 AM

Title: What are these used for
Post by: BoatGuy on June 15, 2011, 09:03:56 AM

The jack is only about 7 inches tall and for sure not strong enough to raise a car.The cast iron weight is something I have never seen before. It weighs about 3 lbs and only about 6 inches in height..

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Donny B. on June 15, 2011, 10:10:26 AM

The weight looks very much like the weights on my steelyard scales. Sometimes, on steelyard weights, the inside of the top of the top ring is flattened a bit to help it sit in the calibration notches a bit more securely.  I'm not saying that is what yours is.....just what it looks like. Maybe it is just a fishing sinker for when the tide is running high.

I would not be too hasty to criticise the diminutive size of your jack. I have a 6 inch Shelley jack sitting beside me now that is part of the tool kit of a couple of my cars. Is there a maker's name on your jack?

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: scottg on June 16, 2011, 10:58:40 AM

Yup, its a scale weight.
 Not the one that slides along the beam, its one to hang off the end of the beam that bumps the whole scale up another 100 pounds or whatever it changed it to.
 Most of them looked like miniature barbell weights and you could hang more than one off the rod, but the earlier ones looked just like this. Isn't there a marking on it somewhere?  A 100? 200? 500?
 yours Scott

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Donny B. on June 16, 2011, 11:53:41 PM

Quote from: scottg on June 16, 2011, 10:58:40 AM

Yup, its a scale weight.
 Not the one that slides along the beam, its one to hang off the end of the beam that bumps the whole scale up another 100 pounds or whatever it changed it to.
 Most of them looked like miniature barbell weights and you could hang more than one off the rod, but the earlier ones looked just like this. Isn't there a marking on it somewhere?  A 100? 200? 500?
 yours Scott

I am glad that you agree that it is a weight but I think we may be talking about different scales here. I suspect that you are thinking of platform scales.

On the steelyard scales pictured below the weight does indeed move along the bar which is notched and calibrated, though the calibrations don't show up too well in the pictures. The weights on these scales, the pictured ones, are not marked with a number (their weight). That was a bit irrelevant as they were not really meant to be removed from the scales, though these ones do have drill holes to show that they were tested by Weights and Measures to be the "correct" weight for an accurate measurement. The large scales shown are calibrated to 360 lbs.

The weights looks pretty much like BoatGuy's.

I have tried to show the flattening of the top ring so that it sits into the notch. I don't think they were all done like this, though.

 

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: scottg on June 18, 2011, 09:01:57 PM

Cool old scales! I don't see that kind 'round here. Looks very old.
Thanks for the pix!!
   yours Scott

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Hm Wrench on June 19, 2011, 12:27:09 AM

Are there any markings on the Jack?

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Aunt Phil on June 19, 2011, 12:41:22 AM

Well, you got the little fellows usually called fisherman's scales like Donnie posted, and then you got your wagon scale like this that can weigh up to 500# by hanging adder weights to the back of the beam.

The overall beam on this scale is about 4 feet, and it carrys a slider on the back of the beam that reads directly to numbers punched into the beam.

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Donny B. on June 19, 2011, 06:00:59 AM

What a ripper set of scales! The only thing that I have that would weigh 500lb (and more) are my platform scales.

What is the purpose of that large curved extension on the right of the photo? Is it some sort of counterbalance? I am having difficulty sorting out how it works with an extension like that. With the steelyards the hanging hook serves as the fulcrum with the load on one side being balanced by the counterweight on the other, pretty well like a simple balance scale.

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Lewill2 on June 19, 2011, 07:23:32 AM

I believe that it serves as weight to balance the beam but it may also serve as a storage hook for hanging it up out of the way.

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Aunt Phil on June 19, 2011, 02:31:06 PM

The curved portion of the beam is just a counterweight.  It's cast iron, and my feeling is the beam itself was placed into a mold and molten cast was poured locking the beam into the casting.  After casting the cast was cleaned up and the assembly balanced.

You've hit on the deep secret of all these scales, they're a simple first class lever taking advantage of very simple laws of leverage.  Many were built in place in years long forgotten using wood beams.  A nice feature of this type scale is it can be rigged above the object needing to be weighed, and the object needn't be lifted onto the scale itself.

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: herbie on June 20, 2011, 12:43:11 PM

The big one of these beam scales (on the right) is about 4 feet long.  I don't have the weights for it.  I'm guessing it was used to weigh hog and beef sides,

Herbie

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Donny B. on June 20, 2011, 01:08:24 PM

Your beam scale does not have the curve on the end as Aunt Phil's does. I have not seen scales like those and I am still having trouble figuring  the purpose of that extension on the load side of the hanging hook. The load is not going to be moved in and out along that arm and I can't imagine putting extra weights on that side of the scale. The steelyards that you have on the wall don't have extensions like that.

I like to see them displayed like that.

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: scottg on June 20, 2011, 01:53:20 PM

I had a big, all brass, scale beam set for a years.
  It was Chatillion or whatever the common maker's name is.  I recon it was for light wagons or cotton bales piled high, in conjunction with a big platform linkage, or something about that range.
 The main beam was nearly 4 feet long with a heavy slider, and there were 2 shorter beams with their own sliders besides,
 all brass, all of it, except the iron ring to hold it up with, and the balance knives it pivoted on. 
 Well I polished it all up beautiful, made a sturdy wooden stand for it,  and it sat in the window sill for years.
 But really, I don't have this kind of room in my little house, so it had to go.
  I didn't have the heart to cut it up for its brass, or sell it for scrap weight, fool that I am. 
 So I sent it to my friend to be sold on commission. This was when he was still doing street fairs and such.
I figured its would be an easy sell, but he gave up the street thing and just went back his usual antique bottle show circuit.
     I think its still sitting in his garage. sigh
  I could probably still make you good pretty deal, but 40 pounds of brass 4 feet long wouldn't ship cheaply.
   yours Scott
 yours Scott

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Donny B. on June 20, 2011, 09:15:44 PM

Quote from: scottg on June 20, 2011, 01:53:20 PM

..................................... I didn't have the heart to cut it up for its brass, or sell it for scrap weight, fool that I am............................
 .....................................40 pounds of brass 4 feet long wouldn't ship cheaply.
   yours Scott
 yours Scott

It sounds like a very pretty and interesting set of scales. I shudder at the very thought of cutting it up for the brass.

You are right about the shipping, though. The cost of 40lbs would be rather prohibitive. The cost for quite small packages often exceeds the value of the item. Its length also makes it rather difficult to explore other avenues.

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: herbie on June 21, 2011, 03:35:11 PM

Okay, I took the 4 ft. beam down to read it.  A sketch is attached.  On one side the graduations go from 0 to 100.  That side is marked with a 4.  The maker name appears as J.J. STRASS followed by what could be an E and then maybe something else.  But, I can't be sure.  The extension end shows the number 300.

On the other side marked with an 8, the graduations go from 0 to 200.  There are no other markings on this side.

That doesn't let us know how the extension is used nor how the same beam has two different scales without some different leverage point.

Herbie 

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Bus on June 21, 2011, 04:36:56 PM

These beam scales (often called cotton scales) had two different weights or "peas". Used the lighter one for the smaller scale and the heavier one for the heavier scale. The peas had hooks on them that you slide along the notches on the beam till it is level then read the weight below that notch.

You could take these scales to the field and hang from a crude tripod, tree, etc. and weight cotton or hay bales on the spot.

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: J.A.F.E. on June 22, 2011, 12:18:09 AM

It's been a while since I've used it but Greyhound has or had a package service. You have to drop it off at the station and pick it up at a station at the other end but they will ship (or did) pretty much anything. Engines, transmissions, big and heavy no matter as long as it fit in the bay under the passenger floor. And it was the cheapest option out there by far. The more flexible you are with schedule the cheaper.

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Aunt Phil on June 22, 2011, 02:00:38 AM

OK, let me see if I can clear it up, or screw it up.

Think of the scale beam as a teeter totter.  When the sliding weight equalizes the beam is level. 

The hook is nothing more than a weight equal to the beam itself and slider at 0 position past the fulcrum.  It's kind of like the fat kid sitting closer tothe tip point on the teetertotter so the skinny kid sitting on the other end doesn't spend his day in the air.

Beam scales with different graduations on opposite sides are set up to employ adder weights on the tail end of the beam.  The scale itself is graduated on one side to weigh from 0 to 100 pounds.  If the object being weighed is more than 100 pounds, the adder weight gets hooked onto the tail and the weight of the obbect is read directly from the 200# side of the beam.  Usually a shackle is in the beam tail to hold the adder weight.

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Bus on June 22, 2011, 02:35:15 AM

You don't add a weight but change the weights and they each have their own hook. The beam is usually marked with the pound weight of the pea needed for that side of the scale. Like 2 & 4, 4 & 8, etc. Here's a picture of a scale and two peas.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/cotton-scale.jpg)

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Bus on June 22, 2011, 03:16:44 AM

Here are some pictures from my 1918 Simmons Catalaog showing these scales. I have been calling the weights peas they call them poises. Several years ago I saw a PBS documentary on the big flood in Louisiana in the 1920's. One scene was of a flooded cotton field with one of these scales hanging on a tripod.

Bottom pic is the listing from the same catalog for steelyards with the weights like BoatGuy's

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/scale-1918-simmons-catalog-11.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/scale-1918-simmons-catalog-12.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/scale-1918-simmons-catalog-13.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/scale-1918-simmons-catalog-14.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/scale-1918-simmons-catalog-15.jpg)


(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/scale-1918-simmons-catalog-3.jpg)

Title: Re: What are these used for
Post by: Aunt Phil on June 23, 2011, 02:45:37 AM

Different makers used different designs.

Look closely at the picture I posted and you'll notice the beam carrys a sliding weight. 
That slider accomodates weights to 100#.  For loads over 100# an additional weight is added to the shackle on the back end of the beam.