Tool Talk

What's-It Forum => What's-It Forum => Topic started by: OilyRascal on February 21, 2012, 08:40:28 PM

Title: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: OilyRascal on February 21, 2012, 08:40:28 PM
I've tried, but I can't find any leads on either of these tools.  Any help would be appreciated.  As a learning experience for me, if you could help me understand WHY you know "what you know" it would be very helpful to me.  I'm looking to figure out who makes them and timeframe, info on company, etc.

The wrench is marked "804" on the shank of one side, and has logo on shank of other.  The socket?  has no markings.

thanks again!

Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: jimwrench on February 21, 2012, 09:00:35 PM
 Wrench is probably Armstrong. Alloy Artifacts shows a sister wrench (single box with 800 type part no.)Alloys wrench has A ina triangle logo from which you can figure out vintage. Don't know about socket.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: rusty on February 21, 2012, 09:03:25 PM
Spend some time browsing at alloy artifacts, look at the logos, some companies only have logo marks.
The arm holding a hammer mark is from Armstrong tool co....

Also, it helps to learn the ranges of numbers that correspond with the old 'standard numbers', in this case, the 800 series was for single ended box wrenches, you have a general purpose wrench, box type...

The socket looks special purpose......dunno
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: OilyRascal on February 21, 2012, 09:30:00 PM
Thanks and Thanks!  Question on Alloy Artifacts - what is the source for the information posted there?  Is it the result of a forum, committee, a person, group?  I'm not questioning the validity, rather in amazement at the volume of what MANY regard as authoritative information on tools.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: lauver on February 22, 2012, 11:45:35 AM
Oily,

To the best of my knowledge, AA is one guy.  He has and uses quite a large collection of tool catalogs and tools.  These are his primary source of information.  He also supplements his information with patent data, trade name data, court documents, FTC documents, business directories, newspaper articles, and trade magazine ad's.  He's a pretty resourceful guy.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: johnsironsanctuary on February 22, 2012, 12:03:14 PM
The socket appears to be forged from a 'daisy' shaped blank. My guess would be from an OEM tool kit of some kind. Pretty light duty tool. If put any pressure on it, the 'petals' would spread.
JIS
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: OilyRascal on February 22, 2012, 12:46:17 PM
The socket appears to be forged from a 'daisy' shaped blank. My guess would be from an OEM tool kit of some kind. Pretty light duty tool. If put any pressure on it, the 'petals' would spread.
JIS

Thanks John - I suspected it may have been made by nature of a simplified forging process.  Do you know if this was an "early" process, or just an inexpensive one employed but not during any specific erra?

Oily,

To the best of my knowledge, AA is one guy.  He has and uses quite a large collection of tool catalogs and tools.  These are his primary source of information.  He also supplements his information with patent data, trade name data, court documents, FTC documents, business directories, newspaper articles, and trade magazine ad's.  He's a pretty resourceful guy.

Thanks, Lauver!  One heck of a committed, and busy, person.  Great site.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: johnsironsanctuary on February 22, 2012, 03:49:48 PM
I'm guessing that it was done for cost. Good strong forged tools have been around for a long time. I'm thinking toolkit for an office machine or something that did not have to be tightened to the yield strength of the bolt. 
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: Carl on February 22, 2012, 08:49:38 PM
The socket looks shop made by welding around a brass blank and grinding back.
What's the flat-to-flat measurement?
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: rusty on February 22, 2012, 08:59:36 PM

Looking closer at it, those almost look like teeth, which would make it something like a drill bit....
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: OilyRascal on February 22, 2012, 09:37:34 PM
The socket looks shop made by welding around a brass blank and grinding back.
What's the flat-to-flat measurement?

1/2" flat to flat, 7/8" OD diameter on socket, 3-1/2" total length, 1/2" OD diameter on stem, 1/4" hole drilled through end of stem (hanger or leverage?)

I believe there is a forge mark that runs the outside perimeter of the socket end, about an 1/8" down from the end.  The "petals" start/stop about the point of that ring, as if something was putting uniform inward pressure around the outside as it was forged.

Also note the socket depth at 9/16" for the flat to flat, then another 1/4" deeper past flats with a 5/16" hole (hollow inside stem past the flat of the socket)
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: Carl on February 25, 2012, 06:39:01 PM
I'm sticking with built-up weld. There is no earthly reason for a manufacturer to forge or hammer weld  just the working end of a socket. Also note that the corners have no radius at all- a forging would not have such defined corners. This looks like a 'Friday night special' - a tool hacked to get the job done before the customer shows up for his car.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: OilyRascal on February 25, 2012, 10:13:26 PM
Maybe another view may help. 

Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: Carl on February 27, 2012, 05:03:34 PM
Can you get a sharper picture? If your camera has a macro setting and you have a tripod, that would work.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: OilyRascal on February 27, 2012, 06:29:43 PM
Can you get a sharper picture? If your camera has a macro setting and you have a tripod, that would work.

I'll try again.  I apparently have a crap camera, because it was set to close-up and on a tri-pod when I took the picture.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: Carl on February 28, 2012, 11:39:27 AM
Photographing shiny objects is an art unto itself. Try turning off the flash (or putting a piece of tape over it). Another trick is to use a flatbed scanner: put the object on the scanner glass and cover with a towel. Works a treat.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: OilyRascal on February 28, 2012, 11:47:33 AM
Photographing shiny objects is an art unto itself. Try turning off the flash (or putting a piece of tape over it). Another trick is to use a flatbed scanner: put the object on the scanner glass and cover with a towel. Works a treat.

Thanks Carl!  I will certainly try the flatbed trick with a towel
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: 5 SHOTS on March 09, 2012, 12:28:52 PM
The socket looks like a modern hubcap security tool to me.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: Carl on March 13, 2012, 11:15:43 AM
The socket looks like a modern hubcap security tool to me.

No. Security keys don't have symmetrical patterns.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: OilyRascal on March 13, 2012, 12:00:51 PM
The socket looks like a modern hubcap security tool to me.

No. Security keys don't have symmetrical patterns.

I went down the road of hubcap and wheel lug nut security sockets - I couldn't tie it together.
Title: Re: Wrench needs ID and a socket? but why so crude
Post by: Dustin21 on March 13, 2012, 09:25:31 PM
i have a socket similar to that one. dont know where its at right now but pretty sure mines the same