Tool Talk
Blacksmith and Metal Working Forum => Blacksmith and Metalworking Forum => Topic started by: m_fumich on January 06, 2012, 07:29:56 PM
-
Is welding something that can be learned without being taught? I don't have time to take a class on welding since I'm only home a couple days a month. My buddy has a MIG and an arc welder I can practice with. He uses his MIG without gas though. He mostly uses it to tack stuff together and for light welding.
Can I teach myself to weld? What source material should I use?
About 8 years ago I bought an auto tinting welding helmet. Got my buddy one too. Every time I've tried welding, I've used that helmet. All I can ever see is the bright ball of light of the weld. I'm fully shielded from the light. I just can't see what I'm doing. It's like having sex the first time not knowing what you're doing. I just poke around and hope I get it where it needs to be.
-
Mig welding? Sure!
The easiest way to learn anything (almost) is via a YouTube video. Pictures are worth a thousand words. Go out there and search a few videos.
Grab some scrap sheet metal, and thin steel and burn away.
-
Shouldn't MIG welding give me a fairly clean and neat weld even without the gas. What about being able to see what I'm doing?
-
i taught myself to weld using stick on a lincoln tombstone ... i prefer it over every other kind of welding i tried
key is to practice practice PRACTICE
-
How do I overcome the issue of not being able to see what I'm doing?
-
>How do I overcome the issue of not being able to see what I'm doing?
Practice :)
It's the hard part of electric welding, with gas, you use a lighter glass that you can see through a bit. Given a choice, I would recomment learning using oxy-acetylene welding first, it teaches you what you want for a weld puddle better. But, you can learh with any machine, MIG without gas isn't the easiest way, flux wire splatters easily and is frustrating to use for a beginner, it's mainly used because it's cheaper, not because it makes better welds...
To start with, stop worrying about where the work is, get a nice piece of sheet metal and run beads on it anywhere, don't weld 2 things together, just make lines without burning holes in it, when you can make a 4 inch straight line that you can see on the other side, with no holes, then play with welding 2 things together....
-
I'll give that a try. No oxygen available though. Only MIG w/o gas and arc.
-
How do I overcome the issue of not being able to see what I'm doing?
does the helmet have a dial for darkness ? you might need to turn it down. when im ark welding you see the initial brightball then you can see your puddle its bright red and usually flowing, the trick i learned when i was having probally make sure my weld stayed in contact with the 2 piece was to make it so i just pull the welding rod down towards me so i just have to keep my hand steady.
or try to keep a mental picture of what the pieces look like and try to follow it in your mind with your hands. if that makes sense..
-
It is adjustable. I only used it a couple times when I first got it. It's been sitting in my buddy's garage ever since. IIRC, even with it turned as dark as it will go, all I see it a white ball of light.
If I know I'm getting up that way, I'll put it on the truck. You can show me what I'm doing wrong. Maybe it's just a piece if crap.
-
If your MIG welder requires O2 or Argon you aren’t going to be able to weld anything together and get any kind of penetration. The gas is required to help shield the weld and to help form the bead. It also helps to keep impurities out and to help cool the weld as you go. There is a flux core welding wire that you can get, the flux does the shielding in place of the gas. On average a #11 or #12 lens or those settings is all you will need to be able to see where you are welding. At most you will only see about an inch in front of and behind the weld as you go. It is a good idea to watch some YouTube videos on welding.
Brian-
-
Lots of towns have a "community college" that is not far away, and has available evening welding classes, taught by someone who knows how to pass on knowledge.
Wire feed welding is much cleaner with an inert gas shield, and easier, than using a conventional stick/rod induction welding.
I always use stick welding first because I want deeper penetration, learned this first and more comfortable with it.
Start with a 714 drag electrode.
-
64longstep, my buddy's MIG doest require gas. He's never used gas with it although it has the connections.
MrChuck, I'd love to take a class at the VoTech but I'm an OTR truck driver and a lease operator. I'm home 2 days a month. I've only been to my buddy's place twice in the last 6 months. Both times it was because I needed something welded for the truck. I don't even know if I'd have the time to get to his place just to practice.
-
64longstep, my buddy's MIG doest require gas. He's never used gas with it although it has the connections.
I wouldn’t want to trust my life to any of his welds... Without using the shielding gas you aren’t getting any kind of penetration and the welds are going to be brittle... One thing to remember about welding is, that the bigger the blob doesn’t make for a better job…
-
He only does light stuff with that. We did my seat frame and a bracket for my tv. Nothing that gets any stress.
-
Matt
Get you some thick scrap metal.
Sheet metal is the hardest to do of anything.
Get some fat angle iron or 1/4" plate that you can really get your teeth into,
and turn up the arc welder to about 130.
Strike an arc and practice looking past it, at the work, (quit looking at the flashbulb, Bud! Look at what is melting and running.)
as you move the electrode to and fro, slowly.
You should know, the outside light coming in from behind the helmet?
Makes all the difference in the world for how well you can see.
Late afternoon in a wicked low angle bright glare?
Forget it, you'll never see s--t.
When you can't see, move to the shadows or under another light,
but mainly, just keep moving around until you -can- see.
If you have a helmet, and your buddy has a welder and a helmet, and isn't showing you stuff??
Slow roast the fuc-er over a candle until he does!! Are you kidding?
yours Scott
-
64longstep, my buddy's MIG doest require gas. He's never used gas with it although it has the connections.
I wouldn’t want to trust my life to any of his welds... Without using the shielding gas you aren’t getting any kind of penetration and the welds are going to be brittle... One thing to remember about welding is, that the bigger the blob doesn’t make for a better job…
im with 64................ wouldnt ever attempt that with the stuff i weld i prefer being able to walk and be alive.. last welding project i had was welding up a set of splitting stands for a case 7130 so i could crack it and repair a severe oil leak..
-
If he is indeed welding without flux, and without shielding gas, that sorta explains why you can't see anything. All the weld energy is going into the end of the wire which is burning like a supernova 1/8 away from where the weld is supposed to be ;P
-
How much does a bottle of gas run? Exactly what is needed? I don't want to use up his supplies. I don't mind using his wire but I'm not gonna ask him to buy gas for my benefit. I don't wanna use up his sticks either. I'll find some thick scrap somewhere.
-
How much does a bottle of gas run? Exactly what is needed? I don't want to use up his supplies. I don't mind using his wire but I'm not gonna ask him to buy gas for my benefit. I don't wanna use up his sticks either. I'll find some thick scrap somewhere.
small bottle of argon like think pop 2liter size should run about 40-60 bucks... been awhile since i been near a welding supplier tho..
a container of sticks should run you about 10-20 for a 5lb box... which will give you a fair amount of rod to practice withbut prices vary by area,type of rod
-
Looks like I'll be learning stick welding first. I know there are lots of different rods. The only thing I know about them is that they look like a big box of "Pick-Up Sticks."
I knew a guy that owned a fabrication shop. He said there was one rod that he could use to make the welder weld by itself. I don't recall the specs though. He bent the rod into a curve, grounded a piece or steel, clamped onto the rod so it curved down, and set it on the steel plate. It welded a perfect bead all by itself.
That sounds like the kind of rod I need to practice with.
-
Looks like I'll be learning stick welding first. I know there are lots of different rods. The only thing I know about them is that they look like a big box of "Pick-Up Sticks."
I knew a guy that owned a fabrication shop. He said there was one rod that he could use to make the welder weld by itself. I don't recall the specs though. He bent the rod into a curve, grounded a piece or steel, clamped onto the rod so it curved down, and set it on the steel plate. It welded a perfect bead all by itself.
That sounds like the kind of rod I need to practice with.
for begining welding cant go wrong with 6011 its a "all purpose" rod
-
I would start with the arc welder and 3/32 or 1/8 th rod, 6010 and 6011 are both east to work with and are called fast freeze rods meaning your puddle solidifies faster than the majority of rods, they both generate a lot of sparks but are not good if your looking for max strength.Depending on your machine start around 100 amps on 1/4'' plate and see how it goes. If your buddy has a 3 phase machine and the welding you want to do is flat try 1/8 th 7024, This rod is one you just let drag along the metal, if it burns thru turn the heat down a bit and speed up your drag, if it has gaps in the weld or breaks in a bead slow down your speed. A good all around rod is 7018 and has good strength, fairly easy to get the hang of it on the flat but a vertical weld for a beginner is tough to do. If you had about 5 lbs of 7018 a decent welder could have you doing some acceptable welds in 8 hrs or so. If the machine you have is single phase then stay away from 7018 and stick with 6010, 6011 or 7014. 7014 was refered to by a lot of people as farmers rod mainly because it is easy to weld with and is fairly strong. Hoped this helped a bit. Good luck Jim
-
>It welded a perfect bead all by itself.
>That sounds like the kind of rod I need to practice with
HA!, you don't want to know what that stuff costs...
(Hint, a box of it will cost more than the argon)
start with 6011 or such as has been mentioned, the 600 and 700 serties rods are reasonably cheap, you are going to burn many of them up practicing ;P
Also, since noone mentioned it, keep the rod DRY!, don't buy more than you are going to use in a month or so, so you don't have to figure out how to store it all nice and dry etc....
-
Keeping them dry isn't a problem. A section of PVC pipe capped on both ends. Use a threaded drain clean out cap on one end. That's water tight.
-
It won't be that hard to start.
Get some 60 series.
I taught my grand daughter to weld when she was 6 year old.
Of course I knew just how to get to her!!!
This is a REAL magic wand. Makes hard metal stick together....... forever! ;^)
I suited her up safe.
(looking so painfully adorable in giant helmet I had to pad with stocking caps, that she could barely hold up, and my softest gloves about up to her armpits.)
She hid completely behind the shed to start, just peeking around the corner, watched me.
I am just talking to her easy and calm as I work.
Pretty soon she is leering right directly behind me. Looking over my shoulder.
I hunkered way down low making sure she could see.
and I pretended to pay no attention at all.........
She puts her hand on my shoulder and eases out the side, leans further in to see closer.
Pretty soon after that, I get ----The Elbow---
"I can dooo it gampa, I can dooo it!!" fully wound up brave now, and pushing past me.
So I bought her little self directly in front of me, and laid that stinger right into her glove.
Leaning in from above and behind, I put my hand right on top of hers, lightly.
Just a gentle guide, never a push.
We used to always work this way when she was little. She sawed, she planed, she drilled and hammered. Just a little guidance she could do anything!
And of course I had chosen 6011, 1/2" thick angle iron scrap from a power pole crossbar, and 1/4" plate steel. No possible problem there. Turn it up and let it work soft and easy!
I still have the "project" we welded that day. I wouldn't sell it for gold.
Here she was at the ripe old age of 7 or 8.
No need for help this day! Look at that working posture!! Girl is on the job!
It was a Stanley #2, btw.
So wish we could keep them like this forever. Joy of my life...
yours Scott