Tool Talk
Woodworking Forum => Woodworking Forum => Topic started by: kxxr on November 18, 2011, 09:13:00 PM
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I was browsing in a farm store today and came across an obviously old Stanley 78 plane Made in England. Does Stanley still make planes in England or is this one just really old? Judging by the dust and the ancient look of the price tag, I'd say it's been there a while. I can't remember for sure but I think the price on it was $125. Next to it was a Bailey in about the same shape - brand new but shelf worn for years. I am not a wood worker, just curious about how these could sit there so long. It is a farm store, so I'm sure it isn't the first place a woodworker would go for a new plane. I should have taken pictures, maybe I could if someone is curious enough.
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Stanley No 78s have allways suprised me for what they sell for,there appears (at least to me) that there are lots of these around but they all seem to sell for $60 or higher,with lots of them not even being complete.Stanley did manufacture in England but for North American collectors they don't seem to have the value that American made planes do. That plane you refer to appears over priced to me, I'm don't claim to be an expert but I have collected about 400 plus Stanley planes over the last 30 years so I like to think I have a rough idea of prices and what is and what isn't rare.Jim
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Stanley started making the #78 in 1884 and continued to do so well into the 1980s. For at least 100 years the #78 was one of Stanley's "bread and butter" planes. They literally sold millions of them. When Stanley started to drop various hand plane patterns from its product line in the 1940s, the #78 survived and was eventually manufactured in England. Unfortunately, from a collector's standpoint, just about every Stanley plane made in England doesn't seem to carry the same value as its earlier produced, USA made siblings. Unlike Gibsontool, I haven't collected more than 400 planes..... yet, but I've still got more than my share. Based on my plane collecting experience, only mint condition, still new in the original box, made in the USA, earlier versions (pre-1950) of the #78 could possibly command $125. I really don't think that a comparable English made #78, still in it's original box, would even exceed $50. From what I've seen, English made Stanley planes aren't that collectible.
Wow Gibsontool, a collection of 400 planes is impressive! I wouldn't mind seeing some of your "gems." Post a few pictures!!
Jim C.
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I think the price is the reason it's still there. The last one I bought (this year) is missing the fence, but I got it at the dump for around $2. I think I paid $20 for the other one, complete, but that was years ago.
Stanley Tools in England, yes, they are still in business:
http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/ukmade.html
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In 200 years a Stanley Rule and Level (with the floral pattern on the handle) #78 won't be worth $125 unless it really is the exact first model, in a perfect.. original.. box.
Normal 78's, there are thousands of them available!
The only reason you see them with high prices at antique shops is, they are the only planes they know! Anything less common they never saw.
Take in a real tool show and you'll see what I mean.
Made in England? Stanley moved operations to England some time in the 50's?
70's maybe?
Anyway, I am old enough to have bought an English 78 new off the shelf, in the 70's.
I still have it, near mint and complete. (tossed the box when I opened it though)
Yours for $120
OK $85??...................
How about $65??
$60??
yours Scott
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If only I needed one.
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Made in England? Stanley moved operations to England some time in the 50's?
70's maybe?
When did they start using computer bar codes?
Here's a England made 75 Rabbit in a box with bar codes on it....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-SHEFFIELD-ENGLAND-NO-75-BULLNOSE-RABBET-PLANE-MINT-BOX-/150702189132?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23168cea4c
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Made in England? Stanley moved operations to England some time in the 50's?
70's maybe?
When did they start using computer bar codes?
Here's a England made 75 Rabbit in a box with bar codes on it....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-SHEFFIELD-ENGLAND-NO-75-BULLNOSE-RABBET-PLANE-MINT-BOX-/150702189132?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23168cea4c
I am not sure when bar codes were first introduced, but the planes they made day before yesterday all have them. :)
They are still making these planes in England as far as I know.
yours Scott
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In 200 years a Stanley Rule and Level (with the floral pattern on the handle) #78 won't be worth $125 unless it really is the exact first model, in a perfect.. original.. box.
Normal 78's, there are thousands of them available!
The only reason you see them with high prices at antique shops is, they are the only planes they know! Anything less common they never saw.
Take in a real tool show and you'll see what I mean.
Made in England? Stanley moved operations to England some time in the 50's?
70's maybe?
Anyway, I am old enough to have bought an English 78 new off the shelf, in the 70's.
I still have it, near mint and complete. (tossed the box when I opened it though)
Yours for $120
OK $85??...................
How about $65??
$60??
yours Scott
Your mastery of all things planar notwithstanding, a cursory google search by one not so knowledgeable (me) does not turn up so many new Stanley No. 78 planes just sitting new on the store shelves waiting to be bought. And, while ads can be found for very low to very high prices, and there are undoubtedly thousands upon thousands throughout the world lying around in various states of repair and disrepair; the going rate for the few like examples seems to be just over a hundred bucks. About $125 to be exact.
Also, as I am now wondering if I have ever been to a "real" tool show, how does one best tell?
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I didn't realize the one you saw was in a crisp box. That makes a difference.
Not $125 for a made in England, but still a lot of difference.
So tell me, how were the box corners? Stanley was still using orange staples/corner reinforcements for a while and then went to plain paper boxes. I expect this makes some difference too.
Although my 1970's model came in a staple reinforced box (I remember). I thought that looked like an old technology at the time.
But I bought mine from Silvo hardware, an old school store.
Who also sold me #2 phillips driver bits with a brace shank, and actual dowel auger bits for a brace too, right off the shelf. (wish I could have bought 100 each of these)
If I'd had any money to spend they still had boxwood handled (or rosewood your choice)
Marples crank neck pattern makers chisels for sale too. (I'll take 220 sets please)
your Scott
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Saw an incomplete one on ebay the other day. It was mismarked as a Stanley 101. It was BIN for $19.95
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Jinc. I don't know how to post pics but it's my turn for a giveaway next week so I plan to get my daughter to try and show me how. I'll try to post some pics of my collection at the same time. Jim McManus
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stanley took over the firm of chapman here in about 1934,and made
stanley planes from then.i believe g.a. chapman.
brian
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Made in England? Stanley moved operations to England some time in the 50's?
70's maybe?
yours Scott
Older than that:
"1937: Stanley Works entered the UK market with the acquisition of J.A Chapman of Sheffield"
And the story is more complicated"
"The Stanley Works, originally a bolt and door hardware manufacturing company located in New Britain, Connecticut; was founded in 1843 by Frederick T. Stanley. A few years later, in 1857, Frederick’s cousin, Henry Stanley, founded The Stanley Rule and Level Company. In 1920, The Rule and Level Company merged with The Stanley Works and would go on to become its famous Hand Tools Division."
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Barcodes started showing up in supermarkets in the mid 70's. The DOD started using them in the early 80's on contracted purchases so I would think sometime between the mid 70's and early 80's they would show up in the rest of the retail world.
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I've got a made in England Stanley No. 78, purchased from a dealer for $15, that's served me quite well. People say the quality is lower, but you couldn't tell by this plane. That said, I don't know its age; it's certainly generally true that newer equals lower quality as far as the classic Stanley line.
Hard to beat them for what they do best, if you're doing remodeling.
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I've got a made in England Stanley No. 78, purchased from a dealer for $15, that's served me quite well. People say the quality is lower, but you couldn't tell by this plane.
Nope, you would.
I have an English 78 too. It was the first rabbit plane I owned, and I learned on that plane, and of course I love it.
I have several English Stanleys (they are the cheapest on the collector market) and all can certainly be made to work. All of mine perform admirably because I made them work.
Newer tools are mostly Xerox copies. Accurate, but no heart.
But I have older model Stanley tools too, and believe me, there is a difference.
Subtle rather than overwhelming, but there truly is quite a difference.
Those details are important for your head somehow. You see it from a distance, pick it up and you feel it.
The old, everyday, better be to work on time tools,
of yesteryear.
yours Scott
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Yes, there truly is a difference in the old Stanleys. It's often subtle, but having used old Stanleys, I'm never quite comfortable with newer ones. I've heard that the older process included setting aside the castings for a year before machining them, letting them season.
Interesting that the English 78 came up. I bought one last weekend at a flea market. Something heavy had been dropped on it, breaking off the handle, but it came with the fence and the depth gauge as well as the blade (looks like it had seen no use whatsoever. Got it for the parts. I'll see if JB Weld will do anything for the handle -- just for kicks -- but the parts will be added to 78s I already have.
I tried out a German made spoke shave back in the '80s. Expensive critter, a ringer for one of the Stanleys. But like you said, Scott, a "xerox copy." It never quite worked like my old Stanleys. Gave it away.
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Yes, there truly is a difference in the old Stanleys.
I tried out a German made spoke shave back in the '80s. ...........
The major difference is in the quality of the basic iron itself.
In times past they really knew how to cast buttery smooth, fine grain gray iron.
This seems to be lost now.
Try a new cast iron skillet. Just try to season and cook with it. Even if you regrind and polish it out yourself. Just try.
Now get an old Griswold and try that.
The difference is enough that you will love the old skillet and probably use it the rest of your life.
And throw the new one directly into the garbage. You won't even want to give it to a relative you never particularly cared for.
The German and the Chinese cast iron are both horribly coarse and grainy iron.
They can never be made smooth. I have tried.
The English is better, but still not up to snuff.
That could change at any time, of course.
But so far it hasn't.
yours Scott
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Heh heh. All my skillets in the kitchen are Griswolds. Mmm, there may be one Wagner. Those are my "new" skillets. The rest are mid-19th Century cast iron that I used for living history. My deep lidded Griswold skillet has already made it through two generations.