Tool Talk
What's-It Forum => What's-It Forum => Topic started by: Neals on June 24, 2015, 09:49:03 PM
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Recently asked to identify this. I have not seen one before. Was told it was a log scribe but does not look very practical for that to me. LOL wrong photo.
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Try #2.
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It sure isn't a log scribe. (what purpose would that have?) It's a hand router -- the kind that inspired the Stanley 71 1/2.
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I think its some kind of scribe, but it sure isn't a hand router. That blade is shaped totally wrong for that to be the case.
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Branson is correct. It's a hand router.
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Any hand router Ive ever seen has a flat bottom to the blade. How could that one on that tool begin to cut any wood?
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I can sort of see that being a router, it would cut a narrow channel thru a piece of material, but, I don't think that cutter is correct. Like stillfihin says the blade should be flat on the bottom. The blade or cutter does resemble a scribe point.
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The router in the picture is laying on its' side, and the blade has slipped way down. Google "old womans tooth router" and you will see all kinds of similar ones. :rolleyes:
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Which part of the fact that a hand router blade has to have a flat bottom to function eludes you old tool guy? Or have you never worked with wood? If not I see where your confusion comes in. If you have can you show me any examples of hand routers that function with a curved blade in contact with the wood? I don't think you can because its not possible.
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Obviously, I've seen a few more hand routers than you have. Did you take the time to Google like I suggested? That should explain it to you. If not, I can't help you. :rolleyes:
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In the first pic, I see what looks like a boat propeller and a folding rule. Do I win the prize?
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Which part of the fact that a hand router blade has to have a flat bottom to function eludes you old tool guy? Or have you never worked with wood? If not I see where your confusion comes in. If you have can you show me any examples of hand routers that function with a curved blade in contact with the wood? I don't think you can because its not possible.
Like every single other hand router of this style, the blade is angled slightly down. Except that the body here is wood, it looks exactly like the Stanley #71, #71 1/2, # 271, all of which I have and have been using for 30 + years. I have another, a coach maker's hand router, patterned like a spoke shave, which is also set up the same way. You need examples? Just google Stanley 71 1/2. Except for the cast iron body, it is exactly the same.
Here's a modern made example:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/284641638921105738/
Several more:
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaWoodenRouterPlane.html
Lie Nielsen's metallic version:
http://www.henryeckert.com/?route=product/product&product_id=544
One made in 1743:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/198510296047255041/
Undated example:
http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photos-old-router-plane-shavings-wood-board-image29431968
On ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-GRANNYS-WOMANS-TOOTH-HAND-OWT-ROUTER-Wood-BLOCK-PLANE-Spokeshave-1m-/141554523958
Different blade style:
http://hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/archives/Jan2012/wbp5.html
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Tc0t8CgyXiI/TC82doTv1DI/AAAAAAAAE3s/jINMie_nFdw/s1600/RouterPlane.jpg
How to make your own:
http://www.bob-easton.com/blog/2009/866/
Do you need any more examples? I'm one of the two master historical carpenters at Sutter's Fort State Historic Park. I and the other master wrote the 1983 plan for the carpenter's shop there.
And stillfishin, before you get rude to Oldtoolguy again (if for some reason you must), make sure you know what you are talking about.
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I hope we don't descend into personal attacks over an old tool and its form and function.
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I think a few more pictures would help clear up the mystery.
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Take it over to Topix children
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Thank you Branson,
those links explains a lot to those who haven't seen a Hand Router before...
Neals, can we see different views of your hand router? At that angle the tip looks like a spike, but a side view may explain a lot..
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These are the only pics I have
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I hope we don't descend into personal attacks over an old tool and its form and function.
Here, here!! I agree with Papaw. If it continues I recommend brickbats at 20 paces..... :grin:
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It sure looks from the photo like that's the cutter for the tool. So the apparent curve upward on the bottom of the cutting edge is either an optical illusion, or really really bad grinding by a previous owner.
Pretty thing. I wouldn't turn one down if I found it in my travels, but I'm happy with my Stanley 71-1/2s and 71s, and is this a place where I can safely mention that I like all four of them without people wondering why I own more than one?
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I wouldn't turn one down if I found it in my travels, but I'm happy with my Stanley 71-1/2s and 71s, and is this a place where I can safely mention that I like all four of them without people wondering why I own more than one?
This is a place of happy enablement. Not that there's anything wrong with that... :grin:
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Many thanks guys! I hope to buy it but so far no luck.
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If you get it, all you have to do is turn the blade so the cutting edge faces the opening, and slide it up into position. Then you're ready to start routing!
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It sure looks from the photo like that's the cutter for the tool. So the apparent curve upward on the bottom of the cutting edge is either an optical illusion, or really really bad grinding by a previous owner.
Pretty thing. I wouldn't turn one down if I found it in my travels, but I'm happy with my Stanley 71-1/2s and 71s, and is this a place where I can safely mention that I like all four of them without people wondering why I own more than one?
It does look like the PO ground the bottom of the blade to make an almost 90 degree flat near the cutting edge. I haven't seen that before, but perhaps he wanted something closer to a paring chisel format.
I've resisted the urge to get a second 71 or 71 1/2. but if it were cheap enough my resistance would likely crumble. So I'm limited to one of each, a 271, and the bronze coachmaker's hand router. The real wonder is that I don't have more.
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If you get it, all you have to do is turn the blade so the cutting edge faces the opening, and slide it up into position. Then you're ready to start routing!
That's the most common position for the blade, and the one I use. However, many of these blades can be reversed, and sometimes are. Sometimes. It seems that in some operations the worker wants a completely unimpeded view of what's in front of the blade. Haven't tried it myself, but I have seen it. Maybe if one is cleaning out the bottom of a stop dado it helps, making it more like a chisel plane.
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Is there a particular type of route this is designed to perform? Different bits?
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Is there a particular type of route this is designed to perform? Different bits?
Mostly it's used for fielding down. I've used mine mostly for making hinge mortises, but also for
cleaning and evening dados. It also works for inletting when carving bas relief and making a
flat surface below the top of a piece of wood -- like the finishing bottoming for a box to hold
a sharpening stone, or things like making the recess under a patch-box in rifle stocks.
Blades are mostly different only in the width of the blade, but there are blades that aren't
flat across the edge. These may have a skew edge, or, more commonly, are skewed
on both edges to a V shape. While other shapes can be imagined and useful in some
applications, the above are the only shapes I have seen.
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Also known in the UK as an 'old woman's tooth' or 'hag's tooth' router....
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Also known in the UK as an 'old woman's tooth' or 'hag's tooth' router....
Yep. This pattern is a "D" handle.
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I hope we don't descend into personal attacks over an old tool and its form and function.
Amen!!!!!! We are supposed to be united by our love for tools!!!!!!
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Is there a particular type of route this is designed to perform? Different bits?
Mostly it's used for fielding down. I've used mine mostly for making hinge mortises, but also for
cleaning and evening dados. It also works for inletting when carving bas relief and making a
flat surface below the top of a piece of wood -- like the finishing bottoming for a box to hold
a sharpening stone, or things like making the recess under a patch-box in rifle stocks.
Blades are mostly different only in the width of the blade, but there are blades that aren't
flat across the edge. These may have a skew edge, or, more commonly, are skewed
on both edges to a V shape. While other shapes can be imagined and useful in some
applications, the above are the only shapes I have seen.
I am not very experienced with wood hand tool methods, but I am curious. What would be the difference in a blade (or blades) used at other times during the day. Is it (evening dado blade) because you would be somewhat wore out that late in the day? E.G., Would morning dados be easier or harder to cut than evening dados? Would a different bit be used to true up the bottom of a dado?
Hmmmm. :embarrassed:
I think I'm a but rusty having been out of the game for a couple of months.
Always like your responses and obvious expertise Branson - so I hope you know that my comments came from a warped way of reading things sometimes and the joke was meant to showcase my idiocy.
Regards,
Chilly
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You see, Chilly, mornings are for out door work, evenings are for inside work at a bench, and tools for mourning work are always painted black...