Tool Talk

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: junk250 on June 15, 2015, 03:58:16 AM

Title: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 15, 2015, 03:58:16 AM: Old ratchet, pipe fitting?
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: Bill Houghton on June 15, 2015, 10:34:01 AM: Does the part extending up from the hub in your photos have jaws like a brace (as in, for auger bits)? If so, this was designed to bore large holes by being braced against something*, with the ratchet unthreading from the opposite side - that is, the tool getting longer as the ratchet worked. I am presently blanking on the term for the tool. Still in use in the early 20th century, before drill motors became powerful and affordable enough to replace them.

If that's what it is, and you're not interested, I might be if we can figure out cheap enough shipping and a reasonable price.

*Mechanics would set up a 4x4 or larger, supported properly, to brace the tool against. The 4x4 was known as an "old man," implying that old men are good for nothing but standing around. If I ever become an old man, instead of being a large child of 66, I might be insulted.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: Papaw on June 15, 2015, 11:09:12 AM: I think that is a scaffolding ratchet.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: jimwrench on June 15, 2015, 11:46:28 AM: maybe a boiler ratchet. see Sellens page 83
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 12:33:37 AM: Thanks for the reply's !

I will get some better pics up asap, I had trouble because of the picture size limitation here but I think I have it figured out now.

The knurled part of the ratchet will screw all the way off, and it does NOT have jaws like a drill bit head.

There is a slot at the inside bottom of the knurled part that looks like an old hand drill type bit, a slot like a screwdriver the bit would go in through the other open side .

The knurled part is closed on the end with a weird tip that looks like a glass breaker LOL.

At the end of the handle is a cap to reverse it.

I really appreciate your help with this, I thought I was a tool guy that had seen it all but I think this is way before my time !
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 12:43:07 AM: Quote from: Bill Houghton on June 15, 2015, 10:34:01 AM
Does the part extending up from the hub in your photos have jaws like a brace (as in, for auger bits)? If so, this was designed to bore large holes by being braced against something*, with the ratchet unthreading from the opposite side - that is, the tool getting longer as the ratchet worked. I am presently blanking on the term for the tool. Still in use in the early 20th century, before drill motors became powerful and affordable enough to replace them.

If that's what it is, and you're not interested, I might be if we can figure out cheap enough shipping and a reasonable price.

*Mechanics would set up a 4x4 or larger, supported properly, to brace the tool against. The 4x4 was known as an "old man," implying that old men are good for nothing but standing around. If I ever become an old man, instead of being a large child of 66, I might be insulted.

***************

Bill that might make sense, the knurled part is threaded full length bolt on the inside, and the bit would fit in the other side.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 12:50:13 AM: Quote from: Papaw on June 15, 2015, 11:09:12 AM
I think that is a scaffolding ratchet.

PAPAW ,

Thanks for the great forum.

I'm going to look at scaffolding ratchets right now, how old do you think it is?

I thought is was very unusual that it doesn't have any maker or brand name or patent info on it ?

I mean old tools are usually patented or pat. pend. from early on (1880's or so) I wonder why no maker marks ?

Thanks for your reply
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: oldtools on June 16, 2015, 12:51:25 AM: What does the end views look like, only see side views...
must have some type of hex or slot to drive something?
unless it is that hex nut that goes into something...
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 12:56:48 AM: Quote from: oldtools on June 16, 2015, 12:51:25 AM
What does the end views look like, only see side views...
must have some type of hex or slot to drive something?
unless it is that hex nut that goes into something...

Yes it has a slot at the base of the open end, opposite the knurled part.

I'll get some better pics soon.

Thanks
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 01:48:06 AM: More pics,
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 01:49:39 AM: new pics
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 01:50:58 AM: new pics

The internals of the knurled part reminds me of self adjusting brake calipers.

After looking again, I think it is some type of self adjusting ratchet, but for what use?
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 01:56:40 AM: one more pic
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 03:10:41 AM: Quote from: junk250 on June 16, 2015, 01:50:58 AM
new pics

The internals of the knurled part reminds me of self adjusting brake calipers.

After looking again, I think it is some type of self adjusting ratchet, the alignment tip is coming to me now, it centers on one end, then would lift pretty much lift anything.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: oldtools on June 16, 2015, 04:44:10 AM: I think Bill had it! a drill driver. The back part was wedge with a clamp assembly, or lever or 2x4 (old man) to apply pressure when drilling by turning the knurled, the drill bit has a flat that fits into the driver..
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: turnnut on June 16, 2015, 10:11:37 AM: JUNK250,

QUOTE; "I thought I was a tool guy that has seen it all,
but I think this is way before my time."

sorry, JUNK250, no one person alive has ever seen it all, we discover or find out about
differant things everyday.

that is the real reason we all check into tool talk when we get a chance.

Yes, to learn.

Happy searching / researching, Frank
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: Bill Houghton on June 16, 2015, 11:05:22 AM: So far, from the pics I've seen, I'm sticking with my suggestion. The pointy tip would have gone against the old man (and, OldTools, a 2x4 wouldn't have cut it; we're talking metal drilling or big drill bits here), with the bit on the other side.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: Aunt Phil on June 16, 2015, 01:00:55 PM: Looks an awful lot like a pipe reamer ratchet to me.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: wvtools on June 16, 2015, 03:29:16 PM: Some of the old catalogs call them ratchet drills. They were typically used in conjunction with a large clamp the held it in place and provided the back pressure against the expanding end. I have often seen them with large square taper shank twist drill bits.

I have been told that they were used for drilling bolt holes in steel beams during building construction.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: bill300d on June 16, 2015, 04:16:45 PM: WV has got it. A Drill Ratchet or Ratchet Drill, I've seen either used.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 17, 2015, 01:10:08 AM: I found this pic which is very close in design, only describes it as a drill driver "used by bridge, ship builders and boilermakers".

This thing is making me crazy trying to identify I have been googling for two weeks and still don't really know what it is, or what it was used for.

I mean drill driver describes anything that drives a bit, Makita Dewallt Craftsman ect. LOL

It doesn't look like it takes a Brace bit(square) for wood, but more of a machinist type slot bit.

Thanks for all your help :cheesy:
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 17, 2015, 01:14:54 AM: Quote from: oldtools on June 16, 2015, 04:44:10 AM
I think Bill had it! a drill driver. The back part was wedge with a clamp assembly, or lever or 2x4 (old man) to apply pressure when drilling by turning the knurled, the drill bit has a flat that fits into the driver..

Old tools,

You don't have to turn the knurled part to advance if it was adjusted between something(about 4" of travel, 8"-14" overall), the ratchet action advances the bit... I THINK

Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 17, 2015, 01:35:44 AM: Quote from: wvtools on June 16, 2015, 03:29:16 PM
Some of the old catalogs call them ratchet drills. They were typically used in conjunction with a large clamp the held it in place and provided the back pressure against the expanding end. I have often seen them with large square taper shank twist drill bits.

I have been told that they were used for drilling bolt holes in steel beams during building construction.

wvtools,

OMG I just read your post and a light bulb came on as to how it possibly maybe was used !

It doesn't have much travel (4"or so) and would have to be tight between something to start the auto advance ratchet action.

The clue you posted,...drilling holes in Steel beams !

I bet you could slip this in an "I" beam and snug it up and the ratchet advance would take over all the hard work with a stubby machine bit.

I think it is a machinist steelworker tool, and not for wood.

That would explain the sharp tip that wouldn't work with wood.

Or maybe not, off to do more research.

Thanks to everyone posting for the info !
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: Bill Houghton on June 17, 2015, 03:23:32 PM: Quote from: junk250 on June 17, 2015, 01:35:44 AM
...would have to be tight between something to start the auto advance ratchet action.
Exactly. You set up your braced piece of timber* next to the thing you want to drill a hole in, run it in until you run out of travel on the tool, and then, if needed, reverse it, put a piece of wood in as a shim, and repeat. The knurling is probably both to hold it in place while you're starting it and to quickly wind it back to "start" when you're done.

My knowledge here is all theoretical. I've never used one.

*aka "old man."
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: bill300d on June 17, 2015, 04:03:18 PM: Here is a description I found.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: bill300d on June 17, 2015, 04:15:44 PM: This May well be the patent for your ratchet drill. Looks very similarhttp://www.datamp.org/patents/advance.php?pn=539423&id=27910&set=15 (http://www.datamp.org/patents/advance.php?pn=539423&id=27910&set=15)
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 18, 2015, 04:40:07 AM: Thanks Bill300d,

The patent link you posted looks just like it (2nd pic).

You mentioned in an earlier post as a metal drill tool (i think I agree).

The patent you posted is listed as a woodworking tool, but isn't a Morse taper bit for metal drilling bits ?

I think the classification might be wrong on the page.

I'm a little confused, nothing new.

And it doesn't auto advance like I thought, You adjust the tension by adjusting the knurled part as you go as described in your link to the patent.

I appreciate your help with the tool.

Is the "Old Man" Steel or Wood frame, it don't really say.

1895 !

Thanks !
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: Lostmind on June 18, 2015, 07:52:48 AM: Good work " Team " . you guys amaze me all the time
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: bill300d on June 18, 2015, 09:04:46 AM: Could be wood, steel or anything that is stationary enough to allow adjusting the drill to put a little pressure on the bit so it will cut.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: Bus on June 18, 2015, 10:20:16 AM: I guess few here check out my Wrenching News Auctions. Richard Lawton had an amazing collection of these ratchet drills that I have sold on the last two auctions. Some of these were are advertised as combination ratchet wrenches and drills. They were for drilling metal but i suppose could be used for wood also if the chuck would hold a wood bit.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/fall-2014/F14-0498-508.jpg~original)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/2015-york-auction/S15-0380-391.jpg~original)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/2015-york-auction/S15-0392-403.jpg~original)
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: bill300d on June 18, 2015, 03:44:18 PM: Bus
I peruse the website occasionally but if I'm looking for specifics I just do an image search and relevant images do come up from your site. So either way I guess I do.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: oldtools on June 18, 2015, 05:35:57 PM: When I was a 1st year apprentice I used one like yours for "close quarter work" on a old Navy ship, the Old mechanic had this drill in his tool box. We just realigned a pump to the old foundation, so had to drill & ream the misaligned holes, but the top clearance didn't allow a drill motor, used short drills/reamers, assembled in place, used 2x4 as a lever (4x4 too fat) to apply pressure, he applied pressure on the old-man & I cranked the ratchet.. it worked great..
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 19, 2015, 01:09:17 AM: Bus,

Thanks for the pics.

Mine looks nearly identical to #395 in your pics, handle is slightly different but probably the same Mfg.
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: junk250 on June 19, 2015, 01:22:20 AM: Thanks everyone for the great info !

Great forum :smiley:

Value ? LOL :cheesy:
Title: Re: Old Pipe fitting ratchet ?
Post by: Bill Houghton on June 20, 2015, 01:59:01 PM: Quote from: junk250 on June 19, 2015, 01:22:20 AM
Great forum...Value ?
Oh, this forum is priceless; no question.

Oh, you meant your ratchet drill. Perusing completed eBay auctions is one of the useful ways of determining value; easier now that you know what it is.