Tool Talk
What's-It Forum => What's-It Forum => Topic started by: mikeswrenches on October 19, 2014, 10:39:15 AM
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I got this at an auction with a bunch of Coopers tools. My guess is that this piece is also cooper related, but how. It weighs just over 8 pounds and appears to be used by hand rather than struck. The knob on the end does not appear to have been struck, unless it was with something wooden.
There are chips out of the cutting/splitting end.
Any ideas? Thanks Billman! Looks like your computer is fine.
Mike
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Is it my laptop/ISP in the UK, or is the picture missing???
If it's cooper related, Branson is the man to ask.....
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It looks like a log splitter used with a sledge. Perhaps prior to making staves.
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I think we had this on here before and it is for splitting staves for baskets or something like that.
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How about for splitting staves to make barrel hoops?
Mike
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Yeah, we had one here a while back. And yes, it's a cooper's tool, but not for making staves -- that's froe work. This is for splitting saplings for hoops for the barrels. A smaller version was used by basket makers.
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Branson, did it have a name?
Mike
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I don't think we had a name- Look at this thread-
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=3612.0 (http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=3612.0)
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Branson, did it have a name?
Mike
In this size, the only name I've found is "cooper's hoop splitter." I'm certain the French have a different name, but I don't know what it is.
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Thanks for the help guys! I think you've nailed it.
Mike
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You have to split the log before you can use a Froemard to cut staves or hoops. Would probably use a Beetle rather than a sledge tho.
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This tool is not listed in Salaman's dictionary of woodworking tools - small ones, used in basket making, are known as cleaves - in French they are called fendoirs (de vannier) (v.t. fendre = to cleave) - I guess this one could well be called a 'dry cooper's cleave' or 'hoop cleave'.....
I cannot find this tool relating to European coopers - in France wooden hoops (usually made from chestnut) were split with a fro(e) known as a departoir, and trimmed to size with a sort of straight edged billhook called a cochoir (or cauchoire)..
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You have to split the log before you can use a Froemard to cut staves or hoops. Would probably use a Beetle rather than a sledge tho.
Yes, the log has to be split before you can use a froe. The tree is felled, bucked to the proper lengths for the size of the barrels to be made, and then split in half. The halves are split in half again, and then the froe is used producing essentially quarter sawn stock. This tool would be useless in the process. Note: not all barrel staves are split radially. Oak is, but other woods -- pine and yew for example -- are often split tangentially.
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I think we had this on here before and it is for splitting staves for baskets or something like that.
Here's the photo of the other one we looked at. It's obviously been used, but we noted in this case that there was no evidence of it ever having been struck. Pushed by hand apparently. It was identified as a splitter for white oak saplings used in making wooden hoops for barrels. I later found a couple of other examples made of wood.
Honestly, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me in cooperage -- as Billman points out, splitting in half and dressing with fendoir or just a draw knife seems more useful, and more like the split hoops on the barrels I have examined.
On the other hand, it would work pretty well on bamboo to make the strips used in Asia for hoops.
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The one I pictured didn't show any signs of use, other than the chips on the cutting edges. They were not new as the overall patina is the same. It's also possible that they are just casting flaws. Sharp edges are hard to make in sand castings. It also shows no signs of having been sharpened, which certainly would have made it easier to push thru the sapling in order to split it.
The other thing that puzzles me, is why split something into thirds, why not quarters?
Mike
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it is also possible that someone got ahold of the tool and tried to use it on something
other than a sappling.
I think that it would be easier to push this tool into the sappling rather than pulling a blade type.
I had read somewhere in the past that they would cut big bundles of sapplings to the length
that they would be needing for certain barrel orders.
if I recall correctly, when they were needed, they would soak them before splitting them.
sometimes beating on them to make them softer before splitting. ( if my memory is correct.)
I have a sappling hoop notcher somewhere in my cave, it is supposed to be foot operated, but
when I got it, the wood frame was cut down and the foot pedal, long rod & spring was missing.
when I get a chance, I will try to locate it, ( I had looked up the patent to see what was missing.)
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I forgot to mention that the hoop notcher makes a slight cut on the ends, then with
a damp hoop, you put it around the barrel, cross the cut notches, and they lock, then
when the hoop dries out, it is real tight around the barrel.
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There's an excellent video on Youtube of Camille Gauthier, a retired merrandier in France, showing how he made merrains (the blanks from which the cooper made the barrel staves) from a large (and straight grained) oak log...
He effortlessly splits a large oak log down the centre with a wedge and maul - for smaller barrels (e.g beer casks), smaller logs and smaller staves, rather than thick staves used for wine barrels, I could see this tool being rammed into the end of a log to split it into three pieces suitable for further work with a froe - it's own mass, and a stong arm, would give it a lot of kinetic energy...
For the video, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsei4x9uXH4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsei4x9uXH4)
To my mind, that makes more sense than using it to split saplings to make a barrel hoop - it's so easy to split a sapling up to about 40mm (1.5") with a billhook, there's no need for another tool... Thatching spar makers and hurdle makers in the UK can keep the split to the centre of the gad with a twist of the wrist....
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I forgot to mention that the hoop notcher makes a slight cut on the ends, then with
a damp hoop, you put it around the barrel, cross the cut notches, and they lock, then
when the hoop dries out, it is real tight around the barrel.
There's no need to place the hoop on damp - the barrel shape lends itself to the hoops being driven on and self locking (as with the iron hoops) - in France they still use wooden hoops (cercles) (as well as the metal ones) to roll the barrel on - they also look more decorative...
(http://pmcdn.priceminister.com/photo/tonneau-bois-cerclage-metallique-981787072_ML.jpg) (http://tonnellerie-gillet.com/files/Bourgogne_Tradition.jpg)
the second image is better - from the tonnelerie Gillet in Bourgogne: http://tonnellerie-gillet.com/home/index.html
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I agree that it is easier to drive a metal hoop on to keep it tight, but, before the use of medal hoops,
they knew how to use sapplings. and they would need to let them dry to tighten.
if you tried to drive down a hoop made out of sapplings, they would break.
I am thinking of the early barrel makers.
we would have to research the timeline for making hoop drivers.
just my opinion.
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Many UK coopers used trussing hoops, made of wood, driven onto the barrel with hoop drivers and a mallet or hammer - these were heavy in section, much more so than the wooden hoops used to hold the staves in place. They continued to be used even after metal hoops were common, and as far as I know are still in use by the few working coopers still making barrels for breweries and whisky distilleries..
In France the cerclier worked in the chestnut woods, cutting, riving and bending the wooden hoops (cercles) - like the merrains produced by the merrandier, these were delivered to the coopers (tonneliers) in a rough and unfinished state, but in the case of cercles, I would imagine while the wood was still green, and relatively pilable.. The cooper did the final shaping, sizing and fitting..
See also: http://www.forum-outils-anciens.com/t7262-Les-vieux-M-tiers-St-Gervais.htm?q=cerclier and http://www.forum-outils-anciens.com/t1172-Queue-d-hirondelles.htm?start=60 (page 5)
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I agree that it is easier to drive a metal hoop on to keep it tight, but, before the use of medal hoops,
they knew how to use sapplings. and they would need to let them dry to tighten.
if you tried to drive down a hoop made out of sapplings, they would break.
I am thinking of the early barrel makers.
we would have to research the timeline for making hoop drivers.
The earliest illustration of a hoop driver I have found so far is a Medieval drawing. Along with several
Renaissance illustrations, and a circa 1909 photo of a Russian cooper, these are being used to drive
down sapling hoops. The drivers are all made of wood. Wooden drivers were still being produced by
L&IJ White. Saplings, in fact, do not break on being driven.
There isn't enough longitudinal shrinkage possible to make a barrel sufficiently tight. It's not a matter
of being "easier" to keep it tight. It's necessary to making a barrel, or a bucket, or a wash tub. You
have to drive them very tight to force the staves together.
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Notice the truss hoops in the L&IJ White catalog. These are the wooden truss hoops that Billman mentions. They are used for forming the barrel, forcing the curve into the sides of the barrel and compressing the joint to the point of being watertight. The hoop-drivers are struck by cooper's hammers that weigh an average of 4 pounds (or a large, heavy mallet in Medieval and early Renaissance times).
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From: http://www.nuernberger-hausbuecher.de/
German coopers from 15th, 16th and 17th century driving wooden hoops... Note how the all wooden driver becomes more tool like and less like a piece of scrapwood...
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Billman, thanks very much for the YouTube video link! I especially enjoyed watching the white-haired gentleman using his froes and shaving horse. At this date (I'm working on 70 years now) I'm gonna skip learning French, but I could ALMOST wish I'd learned it so's to understand what he says about his froes and methods/madness. *bear grins* I've saved the link and will go back and watch some of the "recommended videos" during deeper winter.
Oh, one reason my interest was piqued is that I own a froe-and-mallet set from an early Finnish, "White" settler here in the panhandle of Idaho. He used the pair to make shingles for his late-1800s cabin out of I-don't-know-which wood, just as my former Hispanic neighbors in New Mexico did, but out of what they called "Sugar Pine." I'm saving the pair and provenance on them for whenever someone begins talking about a local museum of whatever size. Thanks again.
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We usd to have tool meets at Dale Kirby's barrel factory at a somll town nr Moberly, Mo. He had his people demonstrate for us. Really neat as all the machinery was over 100 yrs old. The one thing I really thought was neat was when he chucked up a barrel and sanded it with a belt sander that was abt 10' long and there was a large hole in the wall w a fan and the dust was blown OUT.
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Hi Bearman, glad that you enjoyed the video link - I write French reasonably well, but my spoken French is poor, so I also have great difficulties understanding the narrative - but as they say " actions speak louder than words" - and he is a pleasure to watch...
I've just found this image of a tonnelerie, showing the wooden hoops, driver and mallet still in use well into the 20th century....
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Thanks Billman for all the insight into barrel making. Even though I understand no French, I enjoyed the video. That guy was amazing, didn't look like he broke a sweat.
Mike
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Coopers' hoop splitters. But we had only part of the story. A new book I have on Russian coopering shows ones that cut into thirds, and ones that cut into quarters.
The rest of the story is that in use, the triangular back created by splitting is shaved flat with a drawknife as part of the process in forming wooden hoops from saplings. This provides a lower profile for the hoops. Splitting in half makes the profile thicker than desired.
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It seems overkill if these tools are used for splitting sapling to make hoops - someone may have seen the wooden tools used by basket makers to split bindings, and though they'd scale it up to this best...
In the UK spar makers and hurdle makers just use a billhook to split the gad (spar) or rod (hurdle)..
see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U08AiNxq17Q he only uses the billhook to start the cleaving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3TnwYDKhY0 this chap just uses a billhook for spar making.. My old mate, George Day, from Shaftesbury in Dorset would make up to 3000 per day (it took him another day to cut the gads)....
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It appears to be a standard tool for Russian coopers, part of the kit rather than someone's experiment. They're fully developed (I wish I could post the drawings, but I'm unable at this point to copy from the electronic version of the document). They're built like a hoop driver -- socketed metal business end, and a wooden handle inserted into the head. So not an occasional or idiosyncratic tool. I believe that the point of their use is to render a hoop that is a segmented arch rather than a full arch -- thinner while having the same width.
I'm currently repairing a cask whose wood hoops were made in this way.
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For a quick way to show anything on screen, use PRTSC and then paste into Paint - you can then crop to size... You can also use magnify screen to make things easier.... Here's part of this screen at 300%...