Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Twilight Fenrir on July 27, 2014, 04:47:25 PM
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While nothing too terribly interesting, these are the small tools I picked up at a flea market today... not pictured, is a leg vise I picked up for $27 :grin: And a sheet-metal hole punch kit, with all of the dies n.n As well as a hand-crank bench grinder
Everything pictured was $2.00, except the hammers... which, I probably paid too much for. But the big rectangular one was just too pretty, and I liked the feel of the ball pein. Looks like it has a horse-shoe mark in it, but I'm almost certain it's not an Atha :/
I saw a knife at a fur trade Rendezvous the other day made out of a sheep shear, hence why I grabbed those two. Looked easy enough to make. The two pliers were just really interesting. The lower ones with the finger-notches are REALLY comfortable to hold. And the upper ones are just bizarre, having the wire cutter off to one side. No idea what the two tong-like things were INTENDED for, but the one with the two balls at the end will be perfect for a texturing idea I have...
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/Midnight_Fenrir/IMG_20140727_162243_zpsf3a82307.jpg?t=1406496382)
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/Midnight_Fenrir/IMG_20140727_162328_zps41b191cd.jpg?t=1406496289)
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Tongs type thing next to the pliers is a bull lead. A piece of rope is threaded through the holes and they close on the bull's nose or nose ring. Long rope required if I'm using them.
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Bull lead for sure, for when you got to get a bull by the nose! The other tong affair is a brake spring pliers for drum brakes, especially pickups. You got a good bunch.
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Nice Bonney brake spring tool there!
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Bull lead for sure, for when you got to get a bull by the nose! The other tong affair is a brake spring pliers for drum brakes, especially pickups. You got a good bunch.
Sweet! I need to redo the drum brakes on my '86 F250 Dually TDI :D I've always just used a big honking screwdriver for all of the springs :P
As for the Bull Lead... I saw a piece of wrought iron that had been stuck in the ground a bit, and it had rotted away, leaving almost perfect hemispheres in this really neat, tapering, rotting look... I think, sticking a piece of (hot) steel between these balls and smacking it with a hammer, it might be possible to replicate this look, to some extent... remains to be seen :P
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I know that look, I have hammers and stakes for silversmithing.
If those bull leads don't work, get a couple of jewelers daps and use those. I'd be real interested in seeing if you can get that sharp edge between craters.
Chilly
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Don't think the bull lead will work as a top/bottom ball fuller, but give it a try. Will probably break as most of those are cast.
Easy to do, though. Use a small ball peen hammer as the top tool, weld a ball bearing of matching size on a plate for the bottom, with a hardy shank to hold it on the anvil. Easy to make and works great.
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Yeah, I was wondering about the sharp edges too... Might need two pair of them, keeping one clamped in place while working the other, to force the metal between them. Otherwise it might jist deform the other craters...
I dunno, will try it and see! Experimentation is half the fun! If they break, no big deal...
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And the upper ones are just bizarre, having the wire cutter off to one side.
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/Midnight_Fenrir/IMG_20140727_162243_zpsf3a82307.jpg?t=1406496382)
Those are, or at least sure look like, Bernard parallel action pliers. Neat design. I used to have two pair, but now my younger son has one pair and I have one. On mine (and I think on his), the pliers are marked "Bernard" in a smooth space amidst knurling on the handles, and "W. Schollhorn Co., New Haven, Conn./Made in U.S.A." around the main handle rivet, visible when you hold the pliers so that the cutter is off to the side.
Some history from the company, still proudly in business: http://www.sargenttools.com/About/Our-History/ (http://www.sargenttools.com/About/Our-History/).
And a product page, listing the pliers, still proudly in production: http://www.sargenttools.com/ToolsByTrade/industrial/ (http://www.sargenttools.com/ToolsByTrade/industrial/)
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Nice catch, Bill H.! I went downstairs to check my pair BEFORE I got to your post. On the string-tag I attached to mine, it says my Bernard parallel-jaw pliers were made ca. 1913-1948. Not sure why that age range (and don't remember where I found the info on the tag), but I notice that while mine has "Bernard" on BOTH handles amidst the knurling, it also says "Bernard" on the side opposite the "Schollhorn" around what on my set is a bolt with one end a slot-head screwdriver slot and the other side (I'm guessing w/o taking a driver to them) a simple rounded hollow(?) bolt end. Oh yeah, and my tag says the patent date (which I can't read on mine) refers to the method of forming the sheet metal handles. I too used to have another pair but a friend wanted them badly — offered me $20 for them, but I countered with $10 (he's a really good friend; I'd just screwed up my face when he offered to buy them). I remember needing those parallel jaws for one particular task once and don't recall the task, but that's why I originally grinched at my friend.
Oh yeah, the product listing page-link you shared…, the next tool to the right of those may be the descending/ascending-sized holes "pliers" (crimping tool, actually).
In any case, as usual I enjoyed hitchhiking along on this thread. Thanks, everyone.
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The Bull leads didn't break when I hit them... but they sure did bend :/ But, then, the point where I am smacking it isn't in line with the balls either. I'll try heating them up, and bending them down so the striking area is directly over the working area, and try again in the future.
Those are, or at least sure look like, Bernard parallel action pliers. Neat design. I used to have two pair, but now my younger son has one pair and I have one. On mine (and I think on his), the pliers are marked "Bernard" in a smooth space amidst knurling on the handles, and "W. Schollhorn Co., New Haven, Conn./Made in U.S.A." around the main handle rivet, visible when you hold the pliers so that the cutter is off to the side.
Some history from the company, still proudly in business: http://www.sargenttools.com/About/Our-History/ (http://www.sargenttools.com/About/Our-History/).
And a product page, listing the pliers, still proudly in production: http://www.sargenttools.com/ToolsByTrade/industrial/ (http://www.sargenttools.com/ToolsByTrade/industrial/)
Well, those sure LOOK like the same pliers I have... Except... Mine are made in Germany :3
The mark is in the same place, but right now it's VERY difficult to read... These pliers have been through hell....
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/Midnight_Fenrir/IMG_20140730_185857_zps0d7e7818.jpg?t=1406765708)
"FALS??G WER? ZELLA-M???S"
An internet search tells me that Zella-Mehlis is a town in Germany. It's actually the town in Germany that Walther firearms originally came from! Neat :D
Some more searching... turns up the Falsing Werk, in Zella-Mehlis. A perfect match for my marking. That's... all I've got for information so far... All I can find are old examples on eBay and the likes. So, the company doesn't appear to be around any longer...
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I seem to vaguely remember a thread where someone noted that the Bernard designs, after Sargent, were licensed to someone in Germany, because there is still some small demand for them...
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Schollhorn before Sargent, then Rostra afterward. No mention of Germany.
Rostra Tool Company purchased the Hand Tool Division of Sargent Manufacturing in 1987. The entire operation – along with all employees of the original Tool Group – was transferred from New Haven to Branford, Connecticut.
http://www.sargenttools.com/About/Our-History/ (http://www.sargenttools.com/About/Our-History/)
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So what is the "horizontal" tool for with the loop on the end? My dad had a pair (now mine) and neither of us knew what they were for. I suspect an electrical crimper?
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Are the holes tapered just a bit on one side? It could be the tube half of a flaring kit
(A vice like piece would fit over it with a lead screw and tapered flare bit)
The locking piece would be somewhat pointless on a plain crimper...
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The 'Horizontal' tool is for making rivets :3 That's it's designed function, and that's the function it will be put to as well. You can hold it in the tool, heat up the head and strike it to head a rivet, before inserting it into the piece to be finished.
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Works for me.
Just like the tool I have that some people think looks like a pair of pruning shears is really a tool for cutting window rubber. Cuts it nice and straight, stays sharp, has a nice safety guard, and fits in my pocket. That's what it is , and that's what it's for..;P
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Works for me.
Just like the tool I have that some people think looks like a pair of pruning shears is really a tool for cutting window rubber. Cuts it nice and straight, stays sharp, has a nice safety guard, and fits in my pocket. That's what it is , and that's what it's for..;P
I've got a neat little deal made by Stanley, takes utility knife blades, works amazing for cutting rubber hose nice and straight. And, really, anything you throw in it that could be reasonably cut with a razor blade.
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The 'Horizontal' tool is for making rivets :3 That's it's designed function, and that's the function it will be put to as well. You can hold it in the tool, heat up the head and strike it to head a rivet, before inserting it into the piece to be finished.
I have to call you out on that and I'd like to see documentation for that. Rivet headers do not open on the ends. It looks like it could be used for that, but I've been blacksmithing for a few years now, and have never seen one like that in a shop. Rivet headers are solid, the hole doesn't open up. That tool is not substantial enough to take the abuse that a rivet header has to take to perform it's intended function. Rivet heads have to be flat against the work for proper joinery, that tool would leave a little step due to the chamfer along the hole.
Looks like a lineman's crimper to me.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/191459476/lineman-crimping-cable-crimper?ref=market
Here is discussion on a double style one, they relate it is a wire splicing tool. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/ot-how-klein-splicing-crimping-tool-used-257902/
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The 'Horizontal' tool is for making rivets :3 That's it's designed function, and that's the function it will be put to as well. You can hold it in the tool, heat up the head and strike it to head a rivet, before inserting it into the piece to be finished.
I have to call you out on that and I'd like to see documentation for that. Rivet headers do not open on the ends. It looks like it could be used for that, but I've been blacksmithing for a few years now, and have never seen one like that in a shop. Rivet headers are solid, the hole doesn't open up. That tool is not substantial enough to take the abuse that a rivet header has to take to perform it's intended function. Rivet heads have to be flat against the work for proper joinery, that tool would leave a little step due to the chamfer along the hole.
Looks like a lineman's crimper to me.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/191459476/lineman-crimping-cable-crimper?ref=market
Here is discussion on a double style one, they relate it is a wire splicing tool. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/ot-how-klein-splicing-crimping-tool-used-257902/
Hmm, I don't have any documentation on that... I would guess you are more right than I, however... That's just what I was told by another metalsmith o.o I have one identical to that double sided one you linked, and have been using it to make small rivets. Folded it around the stock, and locked it in my leg vise for wailing on... Seems to work pretty well for small stuff...
Though, I will argue that some DO open up, the common method I know of for making a rivet holder, is to start with two blocks of steel with a small piece of sheetmetal between them, drill holes the size rivet you want to work with, then remove the sheet metal so it has some room to ve clamped in a vise. Would then weld the blocks to a piece of flat steel bent into a U for a 'clapper' style tool.
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If I need a silver or copper rivet I've used any hole I could find that fit the blank. I have a 1/4" steel plate, 24" square, that I have drilled holes as small as 20 gauge in otder to make rivets. I imagine it is tougher for steel.
I think all kinds of tools cross over to other uses in other trades or are re-purposed.
Brake pliers are among the exceptions to the rule, I think. I'm most likely wrong about those.
I do agree that the original intended use of those pliers was for linesmen. A recent post addressed this. A couple if weeks ago I picked up a pair of the single sided but paired holes version. They have a Bell System stamp.
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Well, believe what you want. What do I know.
The tool you describe as a "Clapper style" is more than likely a spring swage, used predominately with a power hammer, but also used with hand hammering, to form a desired tenon size or to reduce stock size from larger stock. The reason it is split is to allow the piece to be turned while hammering to make it all even.
To form a rivet of any size over 3/16" shank size, you have to have 1) a hole to hold the hot metal, and 2) a rivet header, which forms the extra metal of the parent stock into the domed "head" of the rivet. Rule of thumb for material needed to have enough to form the head is 1.5 times the shank diameter, sticking out above the flat of the header.
Not to begrudge the subject, and this is last I will write on it, but why argue the use of something after being shown pretty good information of what it is????
a quote I read this morning, that I find appropriate right now...
"There are two kinds of beginners: the kind that know everything, and the kind that want to learn everything. First group remain beginners for a long time."
-Colin Davies-
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Well, believe what you want. What do I know.
The tool you describe as a "Clapper style" is more than likely a spring swage, used predominately with a power hammer, but also used with hand hammering, to form a desired tenon size or to reduce stock size from larger stock. The reason it is split is to allow the piece to be turned while hammering to make it all even.
To form a rivet of any size over 3/16" shank size, you have to have 1) a hole to hold the hot metal, and 2) a rivet header, which forms the extra metal of the parent stock into the domed "head" of the rivet. Rule of thumb for material needed to have enough to form the head is 1.5 times the shank diameter, sticking out above the flat of the header.
Not to begrudge the subject, and this is last I will write on it, but why argue the use of something after being shown pretty good information of what it is????
a quote I read this morning, that I find appropriate right now...
"There are two kinds of beginners: the kind that know everything, and the kind that want to learn everything. First group remain beginners for a long time."
-Colin Davies-
I believe I said you were right, and that I didn't know what I was talking about ^^; My information was based on heresay, even if it works for that application, you are certainly right as to its origins.
As for the 'clapper' I had the instructions from AnvilFire in mind:
http://anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=jdrivet2/demo
Which was a demo on how to make a rivet holder/header. I made my header out of an old claw hammer I cut the claws off of, and drilled semi-conical hole in the face. So as to strike it on the now clawless end. It... didn't honestly work all that well ^^; Still not really sure why though o.o
I like that quote :) But... I have my own favorite on the subject :P "He who has a little knowledge the best fool makes" I certainly know I am prone to that. I'm young, and arrogant at times, especially when I think I know better. I apologize if I came off as argumentative.
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time to shake hands and be friends !
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Your response shows a lot of wisdom, Twilight.
I claim 85% accuracy on my answers / guesses. That's a good B.
Chilly
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Just picked up one of the German Bernard knock-offs this weekend at a flea market, cleaned them up a bit and re-donated them to the Kiwanis thrift sale. The markings on mine were clear: FALSING Vise Grip // FALSING-WERK / ZELLA-MEHLIS / Germany .
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good to see someone doing a good deed for the Kiwanis.
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The plier type next to bull lead is for splicing round leather belts like for sewing machines