Tool Talk

What's-It Forum => What's-It Forum => Topic started by: GaryD on May 30, 2014, 02:42:48 PM

Title: Mystery Hammer
Post by: GaryD on May 30, 2014, 02:42:48 PM
Anybody know what this hammer would have been used for?  Not sure what the manufacturer mark is.  It looks like two ducks or swans with intertwined necks.  Any ideas?
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: mikeswrenches on May 30, 2014, 03:06:46 PM
It would help if we could see what each end looks like.  Maybe another picture or two?
Neat logo!  A new one for me.

Mike
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: GaryD on May 30, 2014, 04:23:37 PM
Here is a better picture.
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Chillylulu on May 30, 2014, 05:09:58 PM
Silversmith's raising hammer.

It is still a somewhat contemporary style.

Chilly
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: rusty on May 30, 2014, 07:52:33 PM
Interesting, long ago (2009), on a far away tool board (this one before the crash) I posted an interesting hammer with the same logo...

I think the logo was id'd as 'kissing swans' but I don't remember what that told us :(

PS: Bohlerstahl appears to be a brand of German(Austian?) steel (Albert and Emil Böhler 1890's, eventially Bohler Edelstahl)
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: wvtools on June 04, 2014, 09:18:46 PM
It looks like a European dengel hammer to me.
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: crankshaftdan II on June 05, 2014, 05:53:57 AM
It looks like a European dengel hammer to me.

Ouch!  That must be for removing those pesky Dengel Berries :grin:
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: wisc on June 27, 2014, 04:59:18 AM
Hello,
I think that is a scythe blade penning hammer.
Bye
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Papaw on June 27, 2014, 07:19:15 AM
Welcome to Tool Talk, Wisc!
Looks like it might be a scythe blade peening hammer. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=scythe+blade+peening+hammer&client=firefox-a&hs=aWr&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=92CtU7m0POaG8gGC-IGoCA&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=582 (https://www.google.com/search?q=scythe+blade+peening+hammer&client=firefox-a&hs=aWr&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=92CtU7m0POaG8gGC-IGoCA&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=582)
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: mikeswrenches on June 27, 2014, 07:53:05 AM
An interesting link.  We'll worth the time.  Thanks Papaw.

Mike
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Billman49 on June 27, 2014, 08:29:49 AM
Yes, a scythe sharpening hammer - this form is common in France as well as Germany and Austria...

(http://objets.autrefois.free.fr/photosP/IMGP0026.JPG)
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Chillylulu on June 27, 2014, 10:21:16 AM
It must have multiple uses.  For silversmiths it is a german style raising hammer. Here is a link to a ganoskin thread:

   http://ganoksin.com/blog/shelbyvision/2011/02/24/simple-treasure-box-hammer-formed-brass/

There aren't a whole lot of silversmiths left, I imagine there are even less scythe sharpeners. I would guess that other trades in germany found a reason to pick up that hammer.

Chilly



Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Billman49 on June 27, 2014, 03:38:41 PM
Almost every one who owns a scythe in Europe will have an anvil and a hammer - this is the method used in most countries (including the USA), but not in the UK, where the scythes, and the method of sharpening are different...

There are two main types of anvil and hammer...

A flat anvil, used with a hammer with a narrow edge (as above)

A narrow anvil, used with a wide, flat hammer....

They are very common on ebay.fr - enclume (enclumette) &/or marteau à faucher and ebay.de - dengelamboss &/or dengelhammer

Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Chillylulu on June 28, 2014, 02:40:55 PM
Gary,

Have the striking ends been smoothed and polished somewhat? The metal at the corners- has it been rounded over a bit?

Can you give us a picture or two of the striking surface?

Chilly
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: GaryD on June 28, 2014, 05:24:38 PM
Here is the striking surface-it has been rounded some.
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: BruceS on June 28, 2014, 08:09:35 PM
And a partridge in a pear tree.
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Chillylulu on June 28, 2014, 09:49:48 PM
I'm not sure how scythe sharpeners dress their hammers. The lower picture looks as if it could be dressed for raising, whereas the top hammer face doesn't look dressed.

Chilly
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Billman49 on June 29, 2014, 03:42:21 AM
My silversmiths' raising hammers all have wider, and highly polished surfaces. The peins of this hammer are typical of scythe peening hammers - in sharpening the edge of the scythe is hit either parallel, or at a slight angle to the edge, working from about 1/2" back, or less if the blade is already thin enough... The process thins the blade, drawing the metal towards the cutting edge (making the blade slightly wider in the process). The thinner (and sharper) end of the hammer is used first, and then the slightly wider end to planish the surfcae smooth. Finally the blade is sharpened using a stone, or a strickle (a piece of wood covered in animal fat and coated with fine sand). The stone was carried in a wooden or zinc holster, or an old cow horn, hung from the belt... Often the wooden ones had a spike so it could be stuck in the ground when actullay mowing, as the holder was often also full of water..

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--RfT-R6UgLg/UONhxzkOZFI/AAAAAAAAXts/2R25DrDGPu4/s1600/panoplie+galerie.jpg) Note the maker's mark on the hammer...

(http://museeagricole.botans.free.fr/automne2000/Coffins.jpg)

Today they also found in plastic...

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9zsw9P1tr-0/UONeNO581lI/AAAAAAAAXpc/q-R5GJkIP74/s1600/coffins+galerie.jpg)

Peening could be carried out in the field, the anvils are designed to be stuck in the ground, but often it was done before (or after) the day's work at home, and scythe sharpening benches are found with the anvil fastened to the bench surface.

(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9177/dsc4354bisrec.jpg)

(http://media5.troc.com/produit/155/05/30/15511309751/max_155_11309751_1.jpg)  (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Scythe's_stool.jpg/120px-Scythe's_stool.jpg)  (http://img.xooimage.com/files46/3/2/d/pasian-di-prato-ud-italia-2-19474fa.jpg)

Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Chillylulu on June 29, 2014, 06:21:14 AM
Billman,

Nobody has argued that this type of hammer isn't used for sharpening scythes.  It is a hammer that has multiple uses in different trades, which is not unusual. I have raising hammers with the same faces as this hammer, and this exact hammer is sold by jewelery suppliers here. (I have thousands of dollars of silversmithing hammers, by the way.  I am somewhat of an expert on the subject. Users and not just for collecting.) Almost all of mine have faces thinner than this hammer, not wider. My larger raising hammers are around the same size as this hammer appears to be.

By looking at the face I was trying to determine if this hammer was dressed for silversmithing.  One end could be, although I like a higher polish. So in my mind the use of this particular hammer is  not positive. It could be used for any cross peening operation.

Your last post didn't strengthen your argument, as the hammer has a much wider striking surface. The logo means only that the manufacturer had more than one model of hammer.

I have yet to deny the use of this type of hammer for sharpening scythes, but I assert that they serve more than one trade. In fact, the description you give of hammering the scythe edge is one of raising the metal. Any cross peen does the smithing job of raising in steel, silver, or any other workable metal.

Chilly

Pictures of raising hammers:

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac6/chillylulu/Tools%20Sized/Crosspeen_zpsvccqsm6m.png) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/chillylulu/media/Tools%20Sized/Crosspeen_zpsvccqsm6m.png.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac6/chillylulu/Tools%20Sized/images%204_zpsqbtzifpz.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/chillylulu/media/Tools%20Sized/images%204_zpsqbtzifpz.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Billman49 on June 30, 2014, 12:50:44 PM
Not arguing with that (much!!) - but in Europe these are often designated and sold as scythe peening hammers - this type not seen in the UK. the closest would be a tinsmith's creasing hammer:

(http://anvils.co.uk/images/products/product_2kvmfp3linojhf1p0b3lk4inr6_1300442978.jpg)

In the UK a raising hammer is more like this....

(http://anvils.co.uk/images/products/product_lc8alq488g0u1tkr1spur1c0v3_1300441182.jpg)

 a search for dengel hammer finds many similar, e.g. http://www.esska-dk.com/esska_dk_s/Dengel-Hammer-med-handtag-2-Pin-943094019261-12610.html

(http://www.esska-dk.com/esska_shared/ExtraImages/943094019261/02.jpg) Danish

But I do agree a hammer designed for, and used in, one trade has wider applications in other areas...

Note in Europe there were probably as many variations in hammers shapes and anvils as there were patterns of scythes - i.e. hundreds...

(http://www.faie.at/media/image/thumbnail/art_pro_fo_dc_9106_720x600.jpg) Austrian

(http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/50-ku/technik/ldw/bilder/farb/f02.jpg) German
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Chillylulu on July 01, 2014, 10:17:20 AM
What do you use in England- or do you use scythesvas much there?

Chilly
Title: Re: Mystery Hammer
Post by: Billman49 on July 02, 2014, 08:20:18 AM
The English scythe developed differently to those in continental Europe, and thus those often taken to the USA by emigrés... Although the string used to make the blade starts out similar, as a sandwich of wrought iron and steel, theere are differences in construction, forging and hardening that make the hammer method unsuitable for English scythes. Thus we only hone them with a scythe stone, and never hammer them...

Most English scythe manufacurers have long gone (I think there may be one or two left making rivetted blades) - we now tend to import Austrian (also German and Italian) scythes - and the associated hammers and anvils used to peen the blades...

I still have about a dozen various English scythe blades of various shaoes and sizes, and a few continental ones as well (plus a few score anvils, and a couple of hammers - mainly French)...

Ther are a coup,e of videos of the Clay Wheel forge in Sheffield on Youtube, and also some of contintal forges (but maybe on Vimeo, not YT) - some links can be found at: http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=23841