Tool Talk

What's-It Forum => What's-It Forum => Topic started by: Bus on March 05, 2014, 01:24:26 AM

Title: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Bus on March 05, 2014, 01:24:26 AM: Among the tools in the upcoming Wrenching News Auction. It's 7.5" long. The only marks are "42" "S" and a "S+" logo.
Pouch is marked: "J. Nuesch Sattler - Heerbrugg". I presume they were the maker of the pouch.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/lot-1015.jpg)
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Papaw on March 05, 2014, 02:44:04 AM: J. Nuesch Sattler - Heerbrugg - Swiss maker of pouches, etc- WWII

Never seen that wrench.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Lostmind on March 05, 2014, 07:29:02 AM: possible hydrant tool?
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Lewill2 on March 05, 2014, 07:47:26 AM: Maybe a tank snow knocker!
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: amecks on March 05, 2014, 07:49:52 AM: The German word sattler translates to saddler in English.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: lazyassforge on March 05, 2014, 12:35:04 PM: The tool looks simular to a firemans gas shut off tool. But, I have never seen that particular pattern.

Bill D.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: RWalters on March 05, 2014, 01:00:11 PM: Random thoughts.... looks like it was meant to go in that pouch - so it's most likely Swiss in origin, looks like a black phosphate finish and marked with part numbers and no manufacturer's name - that makes me think it's military or at least government service (possibly fire or rescue), the pouch is leather, not nylon - so it's got some age on it. My first thought was maybe some sort of crash rescue tool, but it seems awfully small for that. Small for a hydrant wrench too, for that matter. So my guess would be some sort of armorer or gunner's combination tool. There's lots of pictures out there of combination tools used with various mortars and heavy weapons, but I couldn't find one that looked like this. But if it's Swiss - being a neutral nation, there isn't the amount of interest in or information about their equipment out there that there is for more belligerent nations. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Chillylulu on March 06, 2014, 01:24:17 AM: It isn't for fire hydrants, but it could be for hose valves. They have square nuts, and they are in two sizes of outlet 1-1/2" & 2-1/2". I think a compact safety tool. The point could be for breaking glass. What is on the bottom, it doesn't look like a flat blade. Could it be for an access panel?

2nd guess is specialty tool for some sort of mobile equipment.

Chilly
(And its good to be back here)
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Bus on March 06, 2014, 05:37:48 AM: Quote from: Chillylulu on March 06, 2014, 01:24:17 AM
It isn't for fire hydrants, but it could be for hose valves. They have square nuts, and they are in two sizes of outlet 1-1/2" & 2-1/2". I think a compact safety tool. The point could be for breaking glass. What is on the bottom, it doesn't look like a flat blade. Could it be for an access panel?
Chilly

That is probably it or close to it. Here's pics of the end:
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/lot-1015-cu-2.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/message-board/lot-1015-cu-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Plyerman on March 06, 2014, 09:06:18 PM: It is a hufeisen stollen schraubenschlüssel of course. Or, translated from German, it's a horseshoe cleat wrench.

The germans used lots of horse drawn transport in both world wars, and in the winter months outfitted the horses with studded shoes.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/Eisbeschlag_low_2_zpsfbbfbd4c.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/images5WVOYD3E_zps298db2cd.jpg)

The hook on one side of the head is a hoof pick. The pointy drill at the end is for cleaning crud out of the holes before you install the studs. The smaller square hole is for tightening the stud itself of course. And the bigger wrench opening? It is for grabbing hold of the horseshoe while you use a second tool to tighten the stud.

Here is a picture of a different pair of wrenches being used, but the application is the same:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/cleallemandea_zps6c31f549.jpg)
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: lbgradwell on March 06, 2014, 09:24:45 PM: Well done Plyerman!
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Bus on March 06, 2014, 11:25:47 PM: Thanks Plyerman! I will add that to the auction listing. did you know what it was or did you find it on the web?
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Plyerman on March 07, 2014, 07:28:35 AM: Both actually. Funny thing, just last week I bought this odd little wrench with what appeared to be a folding tap in the handle. Nobody seemed to know what it was for. So on a hunch, I started looking on the web for horseshoe wrenches. Wasn't sure what the name of them were at first. Then when I translated "Horseshoe Cleat Wrench" to German and did a search, I found plenty of info. Translated to French and there is even more.

The first picture is the wrench I bought. All the other ones are pictures I copied and saved during my searches. There's a bunch of different styles, but they all do pretty much the same thing.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/DKFarriersWrench_zps824f2bec.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/fer_zpsaa921b34.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/german1941b_zps8e2714c3.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/dscn1622-27e1639_zps45a7ec05.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/dscn1621-27e15ee_zps2fcc6c14.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/KGrHqRrYFGQ1WnmiMBRlOtNirg60_57_zps4c28e2b7.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/tit2ec16hhjf0ffz4___fw-60_58-40eca8d_zpsb1449d70.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/T2eC16JcE9s4PsM9rBRlOpsKyBQ60_57_zps8c52debb.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/BookLesOutilsTaillantsbyDBOUCARDpage235item703_zps3be6d138.jpg)
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Branson on March 07, 2014, 07:55:11 AM: Since odd farrier's tools have made their appearance here, I'll repeat a question I asked some time ago. I'm still assembling the tool kit for the mountain howitzer -- the muzzle loading one. One of the tools is a toe knife. I know what toe knives usually look like, but the one in the Ordnance Dept drawings show no handle. All that can be seen is that it's about an inch and a half wide, seven inches long, and a quarter of an inch thick. The drawings have no definition of the finer points, seeming to show a flat bar of steel for the tool. Was one end relieved so you could hold it. Was it sharpened all the way from one end to the other? I can't imagine finding an original, and will have to make one myself, so I have to figure out what it should look like.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: RWalters on March 07, 2014, 11:28:06 AM: Horses, of course! The pointed end troubled me. If it was a gunner' s tool, as I speculated, why the point? Now it makes sense. Excellent work by Plyerman. Regarding the use of horse transport by the Germans, I recall a book I read some time ago about Stalingrad. The author referenced a letter written by Paulus in which he says that even if his orders allowed him to withdraw from Stalingrad, he didn't think he could, as they had long since lost their motorized transport and they'd eaten nearly all the horses.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Billman49 on March 07, 2014, 02:41:32 PM: Lots of these on the Outils Anciens site a year or so ago (maybe where you obtained some of the images)
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Plyerman on March 07, 2014, 04:32:42 PM: Quote from: Billman49 on March 07, 2014, 02:41:32 PM
Lots of these on the Outils Anciens site a year or so ago (maybe where you obtained some of the images)

Yep, as a matter of fact that's where the old photo of the guy smoking a pipe and wielding two wrenches came from. I'd never heard of that site before. Kind of interesting to see there are folks in France talking about old tools just like we do.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Papaw on March 07, 2014, 04:59:18 PM: They have been at it a long time. Just too bad that they only use French on that forum. I am a member, but have only posted once or twice since my French is almost nonexistent these days. I can read it OK and figure out what is being discussed, but am unable to contribute.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: john k on March 07, 2014, 07:15:10 PM: I believe the point is for cleaning out the pre drilled hole for the stud to screw into. On this side of the pond, they were known as Caulks, or calks, hence the Diamond Calk Horse Shoe company, Duluth, Minn. Later known as Diamalloy.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: mvwcnews on March 07, 2014, 08:12:11 PM: None of the U.S. horseshoe calk tools I'm aware of include a feature for clearing the hole in the horseshoe where the calk inserts or the hoof pick aspect. If all the participants concur, I foresee this discussion appearing in slightly different form in a future MVWC newsletter. -- Stan S.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Papaw on March 07, 2014, 08:27:30 PM: It is worthy of discussion. We need someone familiar with the subject of farrier work to weigh in.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Flatland Dave on March 09, 2014, 10:21:32 AM: After I had looked at the answer I asked my wife to look at the pic. She knew exactly what it was, and is looking for pics of different ones.

Here is a "multi tool" version of one, but no hammer on it.

http://www.horsetools.com/

I'd about bet that "Diamond" made one.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Plyerman on March 09, 2014, 10:25:44 AM: Quote from: Flatland Dave on March 09, 2014, 10:21:32 AM
After I had looked at the answer I asked my wife to look at the pic. She knew exactly what it was, and is looking for pics of different ones.

Here is a "multi tool" version of one, but no hammer on it.

http://www.horsetools.com/

I'd about bet that "Diamond" made one.

Neat! I'll have to see about getting one of those "modern" ones to go with my old ones.
Title: Re: Anybody seen one of these before?
Post by: Billman49 on March 09, 2014, 01:40:58 PM: For images on how this type of tool is used, see: http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/57966324/antique-iron-horseshoe-tool-rusty-iron?ref=market