Tool Talk

Wrench Forum => Wrench Forum => Topic started by: Carl Wagner on February 26, 2014, 12:47:49 PM

Title: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Carl Wagner on February 26, 2014, 12:47:49 PM: Where can I get a copy of this book for a decent price? $175 on ebay is more than I'm willing to spend. By a lot. Someone help a brother out...... CW
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Papaw on February 26, 2014, 04:49:25 PM: Long out of print and very sought after. You might ask Bus Haury if he can produce one. Stan's son Stan is a member here as mvwcnews.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: mvwcnews on February 26, 2014, 05:45:38 PM: The last copy I saw for sale was in the Friesen auction last November -- I had to work that day so do not know what it brought or who bought it.

Martin Donnelly typically "buries" used copies in multi-book lots on his auctions .. I have not seen one in a Donnelly sale for a year or so but I don't look through those sales exhaustively.

My personal copy is very marked up, with error corrections & additional information . All those additions and corrections are a major reason I did not keep reprinting it after mom decided she was getting too old to handle sales and so we let it go out of print.

I've put substantial "update" activity into items in the MVWC newsletters, and in the wrench patents I've added to DATAMP.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Carl Wagner on February 26, 2014, 05:49:10 PM: Id like to have one just for reference. And to gain a little more knowledge on these type wrenchs. Id take a copy in any condition. Thanks for the input guys. CW
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Bus on February 26, 2014, 07:33:30 PM: I have one to list (hopefully in the next couple days) in The Spring Wrenching News Auction Catalog.

Will let you know the lot number when I get it listed.

http://wrenchingnews.com/2014-york-auction/catalog.html (http://wrenchingnews.com/2014-york-auction/catalog.html)
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: turnnut on February 26, 2014, 08:12:48 PM: Carl, keep an eye on the info from Bus.

I saw the one you were talkink about for 175, there is another for one ninety something.
I saw one sell recently for $75

in Nov. 2009 I sold a few duplicates that I picked up.

Shulz's $71
Larry Finch 1983 for $14.25
Shockley's wrench patents #1 $32.59
Shockley's wrench patents # 2 $32.59

the reason that I had duplicates is that I found Shockley's #3 but I had to take all five books,
after selling the 4 books, my #3 cost me nothing.

good luck on the one that Bus is listing.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Bus on March 03, 2014, 10:44:13 PM: Got the Schulz Book listed. It's lot No. 980.

Link to the catalog:
http://wrenchingnews.com/2014-york-auction/catalog.html (http://wrenchingnews.com/2014-york-auction/catalog.html)

Link to all photos on one page:
http://wrenchingnews.com/2014-york-auction/all-pics-one-page.html (http://wrenchingnews.com/2014-york-auction/all-pics-one-page.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd3/buswrench/york-2014/Y14-0979-981.jpg)
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Carl Wagner on March 03, 2014, 10:49:48 PM: Thanks Bus. I can't make the auction but I'm hoping to have my ole buddy Dan the Rustcollector bid on my behalf on a few things. Namely this book and the Sechler cutout buggy wrench.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: rustcollector on March 03, 2014, 10:58:55 PM: Quote from: Carl Wagner on March 03, 2014, 10:49:48 PM
Thanks Bus. I can't make the auction but I'm hoping to have my ole buddy Dan the Rustcollector bid on my behalf on a few things. Namely this book and the Sechler cutout buggy wrench.

Yeah, I'll be nice and only charge him his Auburn Harvester wrench for doing so.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: turnnut on March 04, 2014, 08:39:25 PM: Hi Bus, I have the seven books that you are showing, I had been wearing out my Schulz book
until I received all 3 Don Shockley's books. the 3rd issue took longer to get.
I have 2 Wullweber's & 1 ??? Larry ? Fink ?? I think thats the name.

I am just getting togrther my MVWC newsletters into vinal sleeves, 1982 to present.
it is taking longer that I thought, but this weather gives me motivation for inside chores.

thanks for what you do also. Frank
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Bus on March 04, 2014, 09:24:46 PM: turnnut - I know what you mean about putting he Newsletters in sleeves. It takes a while when you haven't kept up with the back issues. Now I try to to it every quarter when it comes out..

I think Fink should be Larry Finch "Antique Wrenches published in 1983. I have that one also. He was from Ottawa Ks and they just sold his wrenches this last Fall in Ottawa. I called him when I first found his book around 1994 and he told me then he wasn't really actively collecting anymore.

Wullweber wrote four books before the Schulz book came out. I am missing one titled "Northern Plains Antique Wrenches & Tools Supplement 1977"

Shockley's Volume Three is hard to find. Mr. Shockley died about the same time it was published.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: rustcollector on March 17, 2014, 06:53:29 PM: I received the Finch book today. It's nice, but clearly early on in wrench collecting, and pretty well outdated now. Still glad I have it though.
I'm watching a book on fruit jar wrenches now, wonder if it's worth buying? Sort of out of my area of collecting, but may be a book worth having in the library? Anybody have it and can give any feedback on it?
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: mvwcnews on March 17, 2014, 08:48:07 PM: If it's "Collectors Manual to Fruit Jar Wrenches & other Canning Collectibles" (that's the only one I've ever seen & I had to borrow it on Interlibrary Loan) -- it represented the compiler's personal knowledge at the time.
Your post prompted me to dig out the photocopy I made -- if you are interested in canning jar wrenches it could be helpful. It includes some patents, photos of packaging, etc.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: rustcollector on March 18, 2014, 06:31:45 AM: Stan, it was this one here....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171269297138?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I just bought a copy cheaper on Amazon though. It may be of no use to me, but may help identify something I run into further down the road too. I figure you can never have enough reference material to turn to. While the internet is great, an actual paper book in hand is always better.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: johnsironsanctuary on March 18, 2014, 07:26:27 AM: I am kind of surprised that no one has taken David Maher's approach to the problem. How hard would it be to scan these out of print books and put them on a cd. I don't know what kind of copyright issues you would run into. It would seem like they would fetch a decent price, like Dave's, but it seems wrong to have more money invested in reference books than in wrenches.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: rustcollector on March 18, 2014, 08:29:03 AM: Quote from: johnsironsanctuary on March 18, 2014, 07:26:27 AM
. I don't know what kind of copyright issues you would run into.

DISCLAIMER: The post you are about to read may make some people mad. Tough.

I would hope it would be enough where they could never get out of debt from paying all the fines and legal fees they should incur by stealing from people that put their heart and soul into making such great books that we can all turn to when needed. Makes me sick to my stomach to think that people have no problem stealing from other people's efforts. You want the book, pony up and buy an original, can't afford it? Then you don't need it that bad.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Papaw on March 18, 2014, 08:43:45 AM: Copyright laws should protect people who made such efforts to chronicle any subject, and even well-meaning people who might copy their work might be cautioned to avoid violating copyright law.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: mvwcnews on March 18, 2014, 08:56:24 AM: Quote from: johnsironsanctuary on March 18, 2014, 07:26:27 AM
I am kind of surprised that no one has taken David Maher's approach to the problem. How hard would it be to scan these out of print books and put them on a cd. I don't know what kind of copyright issues you would run into. It would seem like they would fetch a decent price, like Dave's, but it seems wrong to have more money invested in reference books than in wrenches.
Several years ago an Australian individual asked for permission to "digitize" "Antique & Unusual Wrenches" in exactly that way -- I believe the conversion was to .pdf (or possibly .jpg ). That individual wanted to do something financially in recognition and I suggested a donation to the Parkinson's Disease Foundation as that is what dad died from. I have no further information about how widely that electronic copy was shared.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: johnsironsanctuary on March 18, 2014, 12:14:37 PM: Rustcollector, Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. That was not my intent. I neither condone nor encourage copyright theft. It's just wrong. If you copy these old books to sell, you need to track down the families that have the copyrights and work with them. Most will probably be reasonable and glad to see grandpaw's work preserved.

Stan, did your dad really go through the legal expense of hiring a lawyer, doing a copyright search and filing copyright papers? How many copies do you think were printed in total?
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: rustcollector on March 18, 2014, 12:48:13 PM: Quote from: johnsironsanctuary on March 18, 2014, 12:14:37 PM
Rustcollector, Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. That was not my intent.

No, I hope you got my pm that my post wasn't aimed at you personally either.

To a large extent, the thrill of collecting is finding "the deal". Be it a wrench, a book on wrenches or whatever. If everything was readily available, where is the fun of finding it? I have Stan's parents' book, the thrill was finding it, Cope's book, a book on horsedrawn plows and a couple others in a lot at an auction and only having to pay $20 for all of it. If I had been a collector when they printed these books, I would have probably bought them then. Such as Rathbone's books.

I do disagree with you on spending on books instead of wrenches though. Not that you are wrong with your belief, just that I feel having reference material and other stuff to look at is as important as any wrench I own. I've worn out my Rathbone Vol. 1 hardcover and vol. 2 supplement looking at them so much. I probably wouldn't pay it, but Pete's books are worth hundreds to me in being able to find out what that $1 wrench I bought is. Although, more often than not that's just what it is, a $1 wrench...lol. The thing I'd really like to find is boxes full of Farm implement news from the 1800's and early 1900's. Sure, you can look at most on a computer screen, but having them to physically look at would be so much easier to me. But I like to read and stare at pictures anyway.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: mvwcnews on March 22, 2014, 11:52:33 PM: Quote from: johnsironsanctuary on March 18, 2014, 12:14:37 PM
...
Stan, did your dad really go through the legal expense of hiring a lawyer, doing a copyright search and filing copyright papers? How many copies do you think were printed in total?
No copyright deposit copies were sent to the Library of Congress, no formal filing -- just the notice on the work. So if it were challenged legally the claim possibly would not hold up in court. (As an aside, we claim copyright for the MVWC Newsletter but do not send deposit copies or register them with the Library of Congress either. )
As to number of copies I'm not sure but I think in the neighborhood of 3,000 total -- I know I picked up a couple of batches of 700 copies each after dad was no longer physically able -- they had the books printed at Service Press in Henderson, NE which is 13 miles WSW of York.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Chillylulu on March 31, 2014, 01:54:30 AM: A copyright search and filing papers is not necessary to enforce a copyright. You can put (c) copyright and date anything you created and it is validly copyrighted. Intellectual property is still property. The only hard part is that you have to prove that it was yours first.

I have software, designs, and other writings that I have copyrighted. All you need to prove copyright is proof that you wrote, designed, or published it first. It's nice to have published dated material, but not always necessary.

I have copyrighted material out there that I hsve seen others use. It made me feel good, as in the copyright notice I allowed the use if credit was given and notice maintained. In particular I saw a specialized q=1.85 semi-log graph I had made in Autocad used somewhere else.

I have seen others use my logos or titleblocks without permission. I called them immediately and made them stop. I also let them know how much it would cost them if they wanted to buy rights to my intellectual property.

Heres the real funny thing- if you hire me to design a fire sprinkler system for you, you won't own the design. You only get to use that design on that project. You can't copy it or re-use it without my permission. All those custom homes out there and a lot of owners think they own the design because they paid for it - but it isn't the case.

Intellectual property is really weird - even if you write some program, or paint a painting, or invent something while on the clock for someone the person paying you may not even own the intellectual work that you created. Best to get it all down in writing.

Oh, and it helps to have a family member who is a lawyer.

Chilly
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: mvwcnews on April 07, 2014, 12:20:04 AM: Update on prices realized -- the Schulz book brought $120.00 on the April 4th auction. Mom was selling them for $14.00 postpaid before she called it quits.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Carl Wagner on June 29, 2014, 11:22:26 AM: My sister got me a copy yesterday at a local MO auction for $20. Whoop Whoop!
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Papaw on June 29, 2014, 04:27:08 PM: Quote
$20. Whoop Whoop!
Indeed! :grin:
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: stanley62 on June 29, 2014, 04:28:43 PM: Send her back to get me a copy too!!! Nice score.

Jim
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Plyerman on June 29, 2014, 09:40:25 PM: That was a steal!
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: bear_man on June 30, 2014, 01:35:37 AM: Just an idea…: A friend once copywrited some written material by paying the postage to a Post Office to clearly postmark (showing the date) three pages — title page plus two interior pages — over the handwriting.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Chillylulu on June 30, 2014, 10:14:13 AM: Quote from: bear_man on June 30, 2014, 01:35:37 AM
Just an idea…: A friend once copywrited some written material by paying the postage to a Post Office to clearly postmark (showing the date) three pages — title page plus two interior pages — over the handwriting.

Thats an old wives tale or urban legend he was following.

People would mail themselves a manuscript, expecting to use the postmark to establish a created date. Problem is verifying what was in the envelope.

The internet is a double edged sword, establishing a date is easy, but it is so much easier to steal off the net.
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: bear_man on July 02, 2014, 12:43:18 AM: Having the postmark applied over some of the writing verifies that writing. And on three different pages…
Title: Re: BOOK OF ANTIQUE AND UNUSUAL WRENCHES BY SCHULZ'S
Post by: Chillylulu on July 02, 2014, 03:07:39 AM: I'd agree, but I had read about it when studying it for some of my work. I don't remember the reason why it wasn't good idea. Your guy stamping right on the document might be different.

The truth of it is, even if you publish an idea first it can be proven it came from someone else who had it earlier. Most of don't have the resources to fight a big corporation.

Even worse can be some of the manuscripts we are talking about. Reference material can sometimes be collected from other sources. Who owns the copyright, the writer or the catalog owner where he found the manufacturer or date of a certain tool? There's a big difference between data in the public domain and first hand been there done that information.

Personally, I respect the time it takes to bring all that data together. Information is the new gold.

One of my younger brothers is a Lawyer. Not that it helps much, he can't remember all the details of laws he learned years ago but doesn't practice.