Tool Talk
Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Topic started by: Papaw on February 09, 2014, 10:00:24 PM
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This scraper on Ebay is described as a Buffum Tool Co. scraper, and the name looks OK, but the logo doesn't look right to me.
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This one is real-
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The metal all looks the same to me, I blew the pic up and it looks consistant with the blade.
That would be hard to duplicate.
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I am certain that these two logos are not the same-The second one is consistent with the ones I have seen on other Buffum tools, both on ones in my collection and ones I have seen on the web.
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The scraper appears to be a very crude drop forge compared to the alligator, my guess would be an early tool, with poor conformance of the dies, but probably a legit logo, the work required to make a fake is going to be more than the tool would be worth...
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For sure the swastika on the alligator wrench is much "crisper" and more defined than the eBay example. Perhaps the eBay example was done by a rookie die sinker on a Monday morning. :)
I have a Buffum scraper also but it does not have a logo on it. However if it was on the bottom, like the eBay one, then it could be missing because of the amount of sharpening that was done. Mine is pretty thin. I'll look closer when I get it out at Flywheelers.
Mike
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I guess everybody knows this is NOT a Nazi Swastika
This marking of old in the USA, was also known as a "good luck" insignia.
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"I guess everybody knows this is NOT a Nazi Swastika" Mr Chuck.
Glad you mentioned that Mr chuck. I wasn't sure but I did know that the symbol had other better meanings before the war.
So did people who owned these tools ever grind the logo off because of the association?
Al
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The Nazis ruined several otherwise good things. There was a jar rubber company that used to use the ancient good luck symbol. I recall theirs was in the center of a shamrock
The famous Nazi dagger was actually a very old Swiss pattern knife.
Is sad how bad behavior can taint the image of something that used to be all about good
yours Scott
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OT a little bit, but my wife inherited her grandmother's collection of silver souvenir spoons, one of which has a swastika as part of the design. Like this scraper, it predates the war and any negative connotations of the symbol. The spoons are in a rack in our dining room and it's always interesting when a visitor is looking at the spoons and gets to that one.
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The scraper swastika is definitely crude, but I agree with opinions stated previously that it is original.
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If real, I'd like to see pictures of a Buffum tool with that image on it.
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Fake!!!
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Heres a photo of some Buffum trademarks. I have a Buffum scraper and it does not have a swastika in that position but is well worn.
Everything looks original on markings. Wonder if mark in that position got smeared during usage of scraper. I would have bought that as Buffum tool.
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If real, I'd like to see pictures of a Buffum tool with that image on it.
I looked thru a bunch of sites yesterday and saw a few with the same swastika as yours. Top right and bottom left bars were angled a little and the top right and bottom left bars were thicker. Should've copy/pasted but I didn't. I'll see if I can find them again.
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Looks like the real deal to me, just a little different than most logos you will see. If it is a fake how did they do it and why go to all the trouble for a tool that isn't worth all that much anyway?
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The 4 spaces don't look consistent at all. The one almost has a U shape to it, an the other is more square. If It is original quality control was sleeping on the job.
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Just for the record, I'm looking closely at a hook exactly like JimWrench's item #2-down in his top pic but shorter (Pat. #672446), and the "swastika/good-luck-symbol" is very clean, crisp and as original as anything else posted here, except for Papaw's questionable example. My vote/bet goes to FAKE.
And pre-Old World invasion, North American "Indian" cultures used that design, quite possibly long before the Swiss. (My Nez Perce neighbors' ancestors were recently dated to 14,300 y/o in OR not long ago.) I've never asked what the design "means," though I do know it's meant to "impart(?)" something "positive."
HeelSpur, fakes are common and fool even museums. Read George Frank's book, "Adventures in Wood Finishing" for examples of the lengths some people go to to do just that.
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Nice scraper, I'd like it.
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And pre-Old World invasion, North American "Indian" cultures used that design, quite possibly long before the Swiss.
We talked about the history of this symbol before. Been around for literally thousands of years, and no culture has a corner of the market. It's as close to universal as you can get.
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Is it so valuable with that symbol that it is worth it to fake?
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Papaw - I'm sure it is original. Like Rusty posted it would cost way too much to reproduce compared to what a Buffum bearing scraper is worth. I have several and never had to pay over $20.00 for any of them. Logo details could vary from one die maker to the next, wear, etc.
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Humpf. I'm warming up to the idea that I may've been mistaken in branding Papaw's scraper a fake. Even so, I take comfort in the fact that I've never yet been "wrong." *he barks a laugh @&w/ himself*
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Do you want to part with it Papaw? I'll like it and I use scrapers in my job. Although semi-retired I go away and do power station shut downs, usually 3-5 weeks of 12 hour days 6 days a week. The pay is good and I only need to do a few each year.
I rebuild the fans, they all have white metal bearings and we scrape and bed these in. I have quite a collection of scrapers that get regular use.
Photo of me with a FD fan at the last shut, rebuilt and ready to put back in service.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/batz2/fan2003_zpsf67b4bd6.jpg)
Batz
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I never had it Batz, it was on Ebay.
Now there are several Buffum Scrapers on Ebay and though some of the symbols look crude, none ar really close to the one I saw before. Wish I had save the listing.
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The stamped company name looks more like the stampings on later Buffum bearing scrapers that I have had without the logo.
The recess on the underside of that scraper is not as deep as the ones you seen on Ebay that look like they have a cast logo. It looks to me like that logo may have been produced by relief grinding rather than being part of the casting.
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Thanks, wv, for putting me to shame — I didn't examine the grooves closely until you said that. The recess/possible-relief-grinding DOES look pretty rough inside. Anyone got other such scraper pics so's to compare those recesses?
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The stamped company name looks more like the stampings on later Buffum bearing scrapers that I have had without the logo.
The recess on the underside of that scraper is not as deep as the ones you seen on Ebay that look like they have a cast logo. It looks to me like that logo may have been produced by relief grinding rather than being part of the casting.
It does look strange. I've kind of been leaning to squished and rubbed. I think it is original and that it was cut into the die, which had been well used and re-ground a few times itself. Its not especially beat up, but if it had been then well cleaned...?
Chilly