Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Helleri on January 11, 2014, 04:17:44 PM
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Have not posted in a while (rl...you know). So, got these saws at a local auction house for $15...Some diston's, warranted superior's, stanley's, and off brands. Any thing look interesting (worth the $15 I paid) at a glance?
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll87/Xemem/Saws1_zps2380088a.jpg)
I'll snap some closer shots of a few of them if need be...but with this many individual items I didn't want to initially go through and take detailed pics of each one. I figure worst case scenario sell em for $2-5 a saw at the flee and make $35-50.
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Let me try to help.
When evaluating old saws, the good ones will show clues right on the face.
You want to look for the fanciest carved handle in the bunch, every time.
5 screws or a fancy medallion? Or chip carving on the face? These are all good signs.
Look for the fully rounded handles, not the semi blocky, hit-it-with-a-router-bit-for-4-seconds-and-done, shapes. Plywood puckers my butt btw. See any plywood? Walk away.
In your picture you have several candidates that are at least middling possibles.
I can't tell how deep the rust is. Take a single edged razor blade in a blade holder and scrape them to see what you got. Pitts can't be scraped away. Right in the middle of the blade there may be an acid etched logo, so go easy there until you find out and if you can save it.
The blade tips can often be a clue. As time went by they made thenm skinnier and skinnier. When you see a blade tip 3" in a full sized saw and over 2" in a panel saw (a short one) you know you are looking at quality.
Plastic, unless its very fancy cast plastic, indicates a crappy saw. You have a pretty fancy plastic handle in the group, and it may be a good saw.
Part of the reason you don't see that separates a great saw from a so so , is that they not only busted their asses to make and use the best saw steel they could, even if it cost more, they also taper ground the saws. It will be thickest near the teeth and thinnest at the toe and tapering to the handle. A taper ground saw will outright sing in the work when its properly sharpened.
yours Scott
PS The newer, plainer saws can be cut up for hand scrapers and also never lose sight of a brass saw screw! Saw screws go missing from better saws all the time.
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Oops I screwed up. The bottom right arrow should have been pointing to the saw above it.
One has a club for a handle and other carved.
see what I mean?
yours Scott
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Good food for thought. So, I will get on taking some better pics of the ones you highlighted. the one you said the right bottom arrow should have been pointing it is interesting. the blade has a sudden drop near the tip along the spine and there is also a small notch right where it drops down...Also, can't I just take the blades and fittings off and sand blast them? A got a friend who could make them mirror finish with his closed sandblasting box setup.
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The one with the "drop"on the blade has the never-explained "nib".
If any are thought to have an etch on then, sandblasting would destroy it and any value.
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ah ok...So, goto be highly selective about which ones to sand blast then...also turns out our lot has another box of them I missed. Ima go out now and start snapping some pics before it gets too dark.
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So...I kinda mixed up the order I had those all laid out in -_-
Um...I went ahead and grabbed one that had an emblem, brass fittings, wide tipped compared to others, carved handle, tapered grind from the spine to the teeth, and overall of the better looking ones condition wise (I don't mind going through all of them one by one if you guys don't :P).
Here are my 3 best pictures of it.
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll87/Xemem/DistonPhili1_zps7fe4c9e8.jpg)
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll87/Xemem/DistonPhili2_zpsd4735cf6.jpg)
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll87/Xemem/DistonPhili3_zpsf9ab1a53.jpg)
Along the teeth, down the spine, and along the center, the blade measure 26". At it's tip I included (as you can see) a measurement taken. And, it seems like, previous to wear, the blade tip would have been 2¼". The handle measures 8" in length. And, 5" at the hooks of the grip on the end. It is also 1' wide. And the weight of the saw is 1¾lbs.
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Nice group of saws. There is a site, the Disstonian Institute that will help check on age and models. On most saws there is an etch, in the metal, about centered on the left side, the side the medallion face shows on. Careful cleaning will reveal this etch, the older the saw the more careful one must be to reveal it. Some are small, others are near four inches across. Destroying the etch is like grinding the name off a wrench, for most purposes it is ruined. Painting a saw to hang on the wall, to many of us is awful, but the saw may still be refurbished later, however after sandblasting, the name and its history are gone, done, period. Seen quite a few saws and other tools that went from a unique $85 piece to a cleaned, overpolished, and shellacked $4 piece. Since a saw can be identified by its tote/handle, one can assume what the name in the etch will be, however, finding an entirely different name, is intriguing, the blade may have been replaced. But sandblasting even a newer user saw is sure to wreck the cutting edge, and may take hardness out of the blade.
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Yeah that is like a Disston D12 or D16, I think.
It says Disston and Co, Philada?
It has nickel plated screws and a decorated applewood handle.
This was a top line saw in its day.
If this was in brand new mint condition, and freshly hand sharpened by an expert,
this would have been a $250-350 saw easy.
Condition is everything though.
If its not too pitted and you worked this saw over to beat the band, (and maybe change it from a rip saw to a crosscut), you could get $60-75 in a walk.
Maybe double that in the right circumstance.
Or keep it, and totally restore it, and see what a dynamite saw can do.
The D series is a little lesser than the original plain numbers (#12 etc) but still a very good saw to use. The D blades were advertized as lightweight, a little narrower at the tip, and no nib.
yours Scott
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Fifteen bucks was an excellent price. Figure five bucks each for the ones Scott pointed out is a decent to good price.
Almost without exception I agree with Scott. My exceptions are that *some* plywood handles are on very good saws. One of my Sandviks came with a trashed plywood handle. Found the same handle on eBay for not much money at all, and replaced the trashed one. My other Sandvik has a solid wood handle. Both are excellent saws, like just about everything else Sandvik makes. The other exception I'd make is that *some* of the "club" handles are found on otherwise good saws. After Porter bought out Disston, they put on club handles but still used very good steel. I have a couple of these.
But the dependably great saws have handles that lie friendly in the hand. Generally, the more carving in the handles means a better saw. My great uncle swore it was true, but I've found some with no carving that are as good as those with carving.
Just like Scott said, the worst ones still make good stock for scrapers.
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15 bucks for that lot isn't bad at all.
To me sand blasting would turn me away if I was a buyer. On a handsaw I would want the original patina, even if its a little rusty.
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@John k
Can I get a link to that site?
@scottg
The emblem says "Diston Phila" there is no ".co" in the name and the words are separated by two 5 point stars with this (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rRt0UTDkEKI/TZnuvKD55WI/AAAAAAAAACY/Fv8Wl2Tlcwo/s320/Disston+logo+2.jpg) logo in the middle (I found this image on google as my room lighting is bad and I can't get a good picture of it).
@Branson
There are a few plywood handle ones in the mix and they are all beat too, lol.
Also, any scrap saws will become additional experiments in making...well can't really talk about that until me and my friend get the co-patent.
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@John k
Can I get a link to that site?
Yes, you can, by using your good friend Google, or by looking at the next line here:
http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/ (http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/)
(not John K, but apparently got up earlier than he did)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymkA1N3oFwg
...The phrase I loath most is "Google it". I am not apposed to using Google. I am not apposed to running a search. So, why do I hate this phrase? Because, a cigar is not just a cigar in this case. Saying "Google it" is a way of both alleviating one's own responsibility to providing any more then the vaguest of information, while simultaneously diminishing the value of peer to peer interaction. A person brought up a website they recalled and did not provide a link. Maybe they assumed I would just "Google it"? One could argue that it is lazy of me to not do so. One could also argue that it's a failing to not provide a way to get to information that is referenced. In any case. I ask my questions on forums like this; I go through the trouble of taking, moving over, cropping/rescaling, uploading, and posting many images so that I can get the opinion of a person...not a search engine.
If I had not come on this site and asked about these saws. If I had googled it. I may have totally missed out on information like how sand blasting these as I had initially intended to do might be harmful. Or finer tips on inspecting them. I may have very well even found the website that has now been linked to. I may have also found one that was similar but not exactly it. That lacked information or had incorrect information. And, you all would not have the opportunity to exam new instances (either giving you something to figure out, or yet another specimen to mentally catalog as having seen, that may still be useful in re-affirming previously tested and found to be true knowledge).
...Even though through the internet, I come to people with my questions. Not to an all but automated process. When you tell someone to "Google it", you are being dismissive, and on so many levels. I don't think it is unfair of me to ask for the link here instead of just using google to find it myself. Since that is the mode for conveyance of information that I come to these forums for in the first place.
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Let's not descend into an argument. Points made on both sides.
Quick reply to a question often leads to an answer without a link.
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I thing you did well on your purchase, and was given some good information on saws.
I know I appreciated reading it all, as saws are not my usual cup of tea!
Thanks everyone for your input, I at least, appreciated reading it from experienced folks!
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I am grateful that I found this site through a google search that took me to Scott G's response to something. I followed his link to his page and read everything. I liked it, so I came back here. I looked around, answered a question about a small tool. Papaw invited me to join and to describe my interests and experience.
The point is - google brought me here, the expertise and knowledge had my interest, but the friendliness made me want to join and keeps me coming back.
Thanks Papaw, Scott, and all the rest of you.
Chilly
(Btw, its 2:18 in the morning, in Denver, 32º & I have the fan on cooling down the room. Poor Mrs. Chilly, she's a saint. We're still on our honeymoon - wait til she learns everything.