Tool Talk
Blacksmith and Metal Working Forum => Blacksmith and Metalworking Forum => Topic started by: Mac53 on March 24, 2012, 05:42:50 PM
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Well, I may have some questions about this in the future, but more than anything I just had to show it off!
My new little giant !
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/thehighlandsking/IMAG1029.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/thehighlandsking/IMAG1030.jpg)
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Looks like you will be doing a touch of welding, but what a nice small footprint machine.
That would even fit nicely in my shop between the partswasher and the sandblast cabinet ;P
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WOW!!! You will be busy.
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That's nice! I don't envy your moving it around.
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Rusty- Yea, luckily the frame is all in good shape. My guess is that it fell over at some point? and cracked the ram guide and sow block. A new trans. style sow block is going to run like $500 I think, so I'm going to see how good a job was done repairing that and use it if I can. As far as the guide, I'm planning to send it off to Sid Suedmeier and have him remove \ reweld it. I'm not confident enough in my welds to be in front of my face on a machine like this. I'm very excited about it, will look great once I finish it and stick it in my shop.
Papaw- I sure will. I'm like a dog with a bone about restorations though, so I don't expect it to take too long.
Rascal- Tell me about it! You can see the wheels of my New Holland in the background...Even with the forks on it, it took a while to figure out how to stand it up (was palletized on its side).
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It looks fantastic to me!
I don't know these machines anywhere near well enough to know what parts are damaged.
But I hope the repairs turn out to be less painful than 500 dollars.
Big tease, hiding the tractor like that!! heeheheh
yours Scott
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Mac53,
Good machine to start with! Too bad about the ram guide. Have you talked to Sid about the guide yet? The transition style are kinda rare!
I bought one with a band shrunk around the sow block one time and when I cut it off to look at the damage, there was nothing wrong! I guess whoever had it before had broken one sow block and decided to band the new one to keep it from breaking??
Good luck to you on the rebuild!
Bill D.
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Just love that old cast iron!
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Here you go Scott- with one of my favorite attachments. (http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/thehighlandsking/skid.jpg)
I'm pretty positive it is going to cost more than $500 to fix up, but I'll still be wayyy below what these are selling for, so all is good!
Unfortunately, I'll have to redo the babbitts ... They're a mess.....the crank shaft is pitted too...
Yes, I spoke to him before I decided to buy it. He said he could repair it and price range sounded reasonable. I think this sow block had broken at somepoint just because of how much is welded onto it. I don't think I could cut the stuff off even if i wanted to. My biggest problem at the moment is I now have everything off the hammer except the block...They used really bad keys, and it is just totally stuck. Any suggestions? I plan to give Sid a call tomorrow and see what he has to say about it.
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Spray it down with Kroil penetrant, am sold on the stuff. I think you did real good, damage not withstanding. To move it around I rock mine up on inch and a half steel pipe, a row of them, no problem pushing it around. I lifted mine off the ground with chain hoist to my A frame, didn't even grunt, the 25lb only weigh 700 or so. Rebabbiting isn't not a real big deal and sure improves things. Set it on a double layer of plank or something so it doesn't break up your shop floor.
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Mean looking skid steer, what is the attachment for?
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JohnK, any advice on getting the sow block off? The pipe is a great idea and will definitely come in handy when I try to put it in my shop. I don't have a chain hoist, not am I set up for one, but I think I can make it work with a bit of man power.
My babbits have bubble holes and cracks and (hammer????) marks all over, so I'll definitely have to get rid of them. Will the babbitt metal ruin my graphite crucible, or could I get away with using a metal cup? Also, I was planning to bolt it to my floor (I know, probably not as important on a 25lb, but I'd feel better, this one obviously has a history of falling over as it is), so wood would be difficult. Do you think some thick rubber would work? I think I have around a foot of concrete for the floor.
Lewill. It is a rock grapple. You can sift through the dirt and pull out all of the big rocks and crap---- and you can grab things!
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Mac53, If the big end of the key is where you can get to it, I weld a 1" bolt to the end of the key and slip a short piece of pipe that is bigger than the key over ther bolt with about two inches of the bolt sticking out. I weld a "tab" on the end of the pipe next to the frame so the pipe will touch the frame on both sides. Grease the threads and put some washers on the bolt. Tighten the bolt as much as you can. Then heat the frame up with a weed burner and use a drift as close to the size of the small end of the key as possible to help drive the key. Sometimes it takes a few heat cycles to get the key to move!
Hope this makes sense!
Bill D.
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I have only poured babbit with a metal crucible, can't say about graphite, anyway lead melts so much lower than near anything else, like brass. The idea on the bolt to put steady pressure on the sow block sounds good to me. Seen the same thing used on old tractor wheels which are rusted to the axle. Several applications of heat can get the metal moving too, to get things un-stuck. The heating and cooling alone can work wonders. I saw one smith had his 50lb Little Giant on a bolted plank pad, on top of 4 inch rubber blocks he got from some factory, kept the vibration down. A foot of concrete is good but still need a buffer in there for the shock. On the bigger hammers they recommended upwards of four feet of concrete under them. I put in a pic of my 25lb. hammer, if you note the steel strap around the lower sow block. Technically my frame is broken, from who knows what kind of torture it went thru. But I figure for the light smithing and bladesmithing I will do, the repair that has already stood up, it will be good. I found from the previous owner, his father bought it at auction in 1951, it sat in their shop unused for over 55 years. I was looking all over, and discovered this one just 4 miles down the road from me.
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Small update:
The machine is 100% broken down. I'm now working on getting all of the grease off. All I have found to work so far is a combination of a pressure washer, engine cleaner, and a small putty knife- any other suggestions?
I managed to get the sow block out with the use of a garden torch as you suggested bill- Had to really heat it up to get any progress. I determined that the sow block is trash (will have to get a new one from Sid @ LG), so I simply alternated heating and firmly tapping the sow with a sledge hammer... Crude, but it worked. The center of the sowblock is made from 5 steel pipes and a massive amount of fill weld that was cut...kind of... to shape. The thing is awful. I decided to skip the bolt process simply because the key was really just a metal bar wedged in their and out the other side.
After a phone call to Sid, I determined that the babbitts are actually fine, and I'll leave them as they are.
How would you recommend building a pad so that I can still bolt it down?
Great find on your hammer! Could you post a larger photo of it?
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I know there is an easier way to put up big pics,
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The plank "pallet", that spreads the load, makes for a large foot print
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The straps holding the cracked piece in place. The crack is behind the wide strap. It is wise to fasten it down, as they can start jumping around when used hard.
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Mac53,
On my hammers I just use two pieces of old ruberized flat belting under the hammer, one on each side with a gap between them to clear the casting seam on the bottom of the hammer.(the bottom is not flat) Two of my hammers I have bolted to the floor and the other two are just glued to the floor with calking. They are all stable this way.
My floor is only about 5" thick, no cracks after 15 years, but I probably am giving up some efficiency from not having more mass under the hammer.
On pouring the babbit, I have used a piece of pipe with a bottom welded on and also a steel ladle.
I started a thread on a rebuild of a 25 lb. hammer:
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=362.0
I need to get out and finish the motor mount and move this hammer out to the shop! (too many other projects!)
Hope this helps, Bill D.
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Cool skidsteer! Its a cutie! I love that rock basket too.
Quite a feat, operating a skidsteer well. Innocent as they look, there is no wilder ride in a tractor.
Took me 10 times longer to get even decent at it (and I never was the best),
than a big loader or crane or anything else I ever drove.
You can melt babbit in a soupcan if you want. And on a camp stove for heat. Its practically lead.
I have melted pewter in a small size tomato sauce can many times. I hammered a spout onto one lip and made a handle from heavy copper wire and 2 sticks. Like tongs. :)
I use an ordinary pouring ladle now though.
Rubber you can get in convenient 8" wide strips alongside any busy highway where the trucks roll.
If you want it thicker, try a marina. Boat fenders lining the dock are about 3" thick. Sometimes truck docks use the same stuff.
yours Scott
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Bill, sealing your hammer to the floor with caulking, well I never argue with success, if it works do it. If your hammer is not "in your shop" then where are you working on it?
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John,
The caulking idea came from having to move a hammer every year to take it to the conference. The one with the bolts had to be lifted up(with pry bars and shims) to clear the bolts in the floor and get it on rollers. So, I just "glued" the other one down to keep it from walking around while in use and it worked!(I just use prybars to tip it enough to break the "glue") Now I havent taken it to the conference for a couple years!
A better wording would have been "move this hammer out to the BLACKSMITH shop". Right now it is in the main shop.
Bill D.
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If you have a material handling company in the area that does conveyor system maintenance you could look for a piece of old conveyor belting and use that for a mat to sit it on. You can get that in all kinds of widths upto and maybe even wider then 4 feet. If you had to you could layer it to get the thickness desired.
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I might also suggest gasket material in bulk (sheets). You can buy some thick stuff in a variety of materials - I like teflon sheets for padding myself.
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Small Update-
Degreasing
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/thehighlandsking/IMAG1081.jpg)
Mostly clean
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/thehighlandsking/IMAG1096.jpg)
Full coat of primer
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/thehighlandsking/IMAG1102.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/thehighlandsking/IMAG1103.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/thehighlandsking/IMAG1104.jpg)
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wow, that is some fast work on the clean up. Going with the little giant green? What happened to the cast name plate? Looks all muddy? How is it a civil defense siren is sitting in your driveway?
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wow, that is some fast work on the clean up. Going with the little giant green? What happened to the cast name plate? Looks all muddy? How is it a civil defense siren is sitting in your driveway?
I have the same questions!
Looking Good!
Bill Davis
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Thanks guys!
I'm a little obsessive it seems when it comes to projects! I only go as slow as I must to make sure I get everything right. I ended up scrapping a lot off by hand, pressure washing, slopping degreaser all over it, pressure washing it off, engine cleaner, pressure washer...and then wire brushed (hand and on a drill) the whole thing to make sure I didn't miss any spots. Lots of work! It isn't going so well on the small pieces unfortunately... Those are going to really slow me down.
I'm not sure what color... Green would make sense, but I feel like it would be a little boring... I'm thinking perhaps a Cobalt blue with copper highlights, like the screen on the cage I plan to built around the spring.... maybe try my hand at pin stripping it just for fun. Any suggestions on color schemes? I'm still 100% open on what to paint it.
I have no idea why....but someone thought it was a good idea to grind down the name plate... It is ground down to match the casting spot on the other side, as if some sort of clamp slid on it for something.... Luckily, the bottom half of the SNs are visible, so I can still read that much of it.
Warning sirens are another hobby of mine. That is a single phase 1982 Federal Sign & Signal Thunderbolt (1000B). It has a 2hp siren motor, a motor to rotate the projector, and a 10hp motor to turbo-charge the whole thing. Supposed to be around 130dB at 100 feet.
I have a few others too- 1920s Federal Electric Company Type B (3hp), 1940s Sterling M-5 (double headed, 5hp), 19(40-50s?) Federal C3 1/2 (7hp), and a few others..... You know, just in case.
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Warning sirens are another hobby of mine. That is a single phase 1982 Federal Sign & Signal Thunderbolt (1000B). It has a 2hp siren motor, a motor to rotate the projector, and a 10hp motor to turbo-charge the whole thing. Supposed to be around 130dB at 100 feet.
I have a few others too- 1920s Federal Electric Company Type B (3hp), 1940s Sterling M-5 (double headed, 5hp), 19(40-50s?) Federal C3 1/2 (7hp), and a few others..... You know, just in case.
[/quote]
I bet the neighbors LOVE you!
BD
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Most of them! Just one particular one gives me a hard time.... The rest just think I'm crazy. Have I mentioned the army trucks? lol!
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>Warning sirens are another hobby of mine
Used to be a fellow near here who had a yard full of strange and obscure junk (cough - treasure to be discovered). One of the things he had out back slowly rusting away was an air raid siren made from a slant 6 engine coupled to a giant fan/howler. Every time I went back there i would see that thing and wonder just how LOUD that sucker must have been...
(And how panicked some poor slob was when there was an air raid and the thing wouldn't start ;P)
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"The rest just think I'm crazy."
My closest neighbor is a little over 1/2 mile away.(thank god) I have a home made "train" whistle on top of my barn. The closest train tracks are 10 to 12 miles north of us. One of the neighbors (not the closest one) told me it took them quite a while to figure out why they could hear the train blowing its whistle!
When I was on my "kick" of making damascus knife blades, I would take a nap when I got home from work and then hammer out in the blacksmith shop until two or so in the morning.(when it was cooler) We had a coon hunter stop by the house one day looking for a dog he had lost on a creek about a half mile over and he asked what we did at night that made so much noise!
I think most of my neighbors think I'm crazy too!
Just the way I like it! Bill D.
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Rusty-
Is that old thing still around? Sure sounds like a "Liberty Siren" ...Made by Chrysler. I'd kill for one of those things. Loudest siren ever made... (138dB @ 100ft)
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Sadly, no. The fellow passed away early last year, and the family 'cleaned up' the property. I didn't find out about that part until way too late :(
He had a garage full of tools also, many from the 40's....sigh
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My son's 63 Pontiac Bonneville hearse that will someday be a Ghostbuster Ecto has a real siren. I made sure it worked soon after the car came to my house. Imagine some of my neighbors who are not of the best character get nervous when I fire that baby up!
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Trucks? No tracked vehicles? "But Bob, I was only testing the siren a little bit." There is one on youtube, from the 50s, has a Chrysler Hemi driving the siren it self, 250HP, said it was heard almost 20 miles away. Everybody has to have a hobby. On the little parts cleanup, a man like you that has everything, get an old dishwasher, load some good soap, hot water, let it run a couple of hours. John
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Ugh, I hate it when treasure gets junked...
Papaw, what kind of siren do you have on that thing? I'd love to see a photo of it
John,
Sadly...no tracked vehicles. I'd really love to get a Hawk loader or maybe even a Bren or Weasel... I'd need something small. Lately I've been pondering the idea of selling one of my trucks and buying an old soviet AFV so I at least have some armour, but it is hard to find any that aren't in Hungary or something.
Update- Decided to go with blue after all
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/thehighlandsking/IMAG1115.jpg)
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Mac53, that siren is so far buried behind the grill and bumper that I've never seen it!
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Siren with a Slant 6 ? That's not a siren, this is a Siren !
http://www.billetproof.com/billetproofvideo/avc-view.aspx?videoid=24&categoryid=0
Don Garlits loves his Hemis !!
Brian L.