Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Daily Howdy => Topic started by: Papaw on November 14, 2011, 10:31:48 PM
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I have sold the company more than 35 prints for the halls and offices and have hung them all. I also get the fun of hanging bulletin boards, posters, towel dispensers, etc., along with handyman stuff like fixing toilets and such!
By the way, I will use an antique tool on every job if possible. Egg-beater drill, "S" wrench, Perfect Handle screwdrivers, etc.
For example, if I have time, I am supposed to mount two rear-view mirrors on a forklift tonight. I will use a big egg-beater rather than corded or battery drill, just because I can!
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I like to use them all. New and old. I really like getting the feel of the older ones and often think about who owned it before me and what they worked on with it.
I read the Smithsonian restores their artifacts with tools correct for the era of the artifact. Partly to get the correct finish and partly to keep alive the skills used in making it.
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Every time I get the chance, I use my vintage and antique tools. It is a good feeling to use a well made tool that has been around the block more times than I have. It boggles my mined every time I ponder the thought of what has this tool built and who has used it before me…
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what it is is that you old farts are reverting , welcome to the club bob w.
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The joy is that I drilled the two holes, tapped them, and mounted the mirrors in less time than it would have taken to find an electric drill and extension cord, or a cordless and a charged battery. Besides, drilling in steel, a slower drill with the correct bit and proper pressure makes it smooth and fun.
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what it is is that you old farts are reverting , welcome to the club bob w.
LOL....
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Quite a few years ago Guns and Ammo magazine did a vintage gun article on the 1873 Winchester. They took Winchester's claims from the time of the introduction of the rifle and compared its performance to the Winchester advertisements of the late 1800s. It passed the test. It did everything Winchester said it would. A repro 1873 is my deer rifle, and it does the job as handily as they did in 1873.
My wood Sheffield brace still drills holes, quietly and efficiently, wherever I want them. I don't have to set the depth on the drill press, and I don't have to put on a drill stop -- just count the number of turns of the brace and all the holes are of equal depth.
As Scott is fond of mentioning, a sharp handsaw is generally unknown to people. But a *sharp* handsaw is quick, unlike a fresh off the shelf saw these days.
Old tools are immediate, and quiet. But maybe most of all, I just like to use them, especially if they're the best tools for the job.
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It has been and remains my philosophy or promise to myself, that I will learn how to do everything with a hand tool.... no power. After that, I'll admit, I do use power tools, they have their place if you're making a living off of woodworking. But, I'm amazed at how many people find some power tool, change the blade, realize it's not "calibrated" correctly and screw up the job because of that!
The other day, when I was making a small wooden box, I cursed until I could curse no more because I could NOT get all of the miters to fit snug (using my miter saw). Finally I said F**** this, grabbed my grandfathers miter box (three old pieces of wood nailed together) and everything fit the first time around---- why did I waste so much time!!!
I have an eight inch joiner with a 76 inch bed on it... I love it. I have a thirteen inch planer.... love it, too. (persons don't seem to realize that a planer is useless without a joiner)... if you're going the power tool route. But, there are plenty of times that you need to start with a hand plane in order to GET to where you can use the other power tools. It's also true that too many persons buy power tools without understanding the basics of the way a tool should work.
My classic example is persons that own a planer. They feed a bowed board through the planer and wonder why it doesn't "come out flat" when it peers through the out feed end of the planer. I've tried a thousand times to explain to persons that a planer is useless without one flat side.
Inevitably, "How am supposed to that?"
"Buy a hand plane. Preferably not a new one."
One tool that I have learned to love is a "corner brace" that I have... who needs a 90 degree drill????
cheers,
bird
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When I was learning woodworking, I lived 18 miles downriver from town, and 16 miles from the nearest electricity. Unless I could do something with a chain saw, there was no "cheating" for me.
It was hand tools or do without.
I didn't know anyone nearby who made much of anything from wood except log cabins and such, so I had to figure it all out for myself.
I do use power tools now. But my hand tools are right there and are the first consideration.
If I need to do it once, hand.
If I need to do it 30 times, power.
Its faster for single parts to use hand tools, but slower for multiples, by hand.
I have never owned a working joiner btw.
I do have one. But it needs to be totally restored. Its a miniature Delta from the 1940's. Only 4" wide, but it is exactly like a big one in all other ways. Sooo cute!! Toy joiner!
But meanwhile, my Bedrock 608 comes off the shelf 10 times a week, at least.
yours Scott
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When I was learning woodworking, I lived 18 miles downriver from town, and 16 miles from the nearest electricity. Unless I could do something with a chain saw, there was no "cheating" for me.
It was hand tools or do without.
I didn't know anyone nearby who made much of anything from wood except log cabins and such, so I had to figure it all out for myself.
I do use power tools now. But my hand tools are right there and are the first consideration.
If I need to do it once, hand.
If I need to do it 30 times, power.
Its faster for single parts to use hand tools, but slower for multiples, by hand.
I have never owned a working joiner btw.
I do have one. But it needs to be totally restored. Its a miniature Delta from the 1940's. Only 4" wide, but it is exactly like a big one in all other ways. Sooo cute!! Toy joiner!
But meanwhile, my Bedrock 608 comes off the shelf 10 times a week, at least.
yours Scott
Yeah, I had a feeling you had some "cute tool" in your back pocket!!!!! Just kidding, I don't know why I said that... just sounded funny! I had a different woodworking background from you............ COMPLETELY different accept for one thing: I didn't know a single person on earth who was a "woodworker." I had to figure it out for myself. So, sounds like we had a weird similar experience. You knew persons who built log cabins.
I imagine at about the age that you were, I was stuck in Houston, Texas. Which, take it from me, Texas is not the best place to be. Actually, I take that back!!!!!! I'm sure Texas is a great place, but, not in downtown Houston if you have the sudden completely unexplainable urge to be a woodworker. I learned how to work with wood via "Fine Woodworker." (I still can't figure out how to underline a title.... so, I'll settle for pretending I'm citing an article."
I practiced cutting dovetails, and read more and more.... I practiced some more.... and, I became a semi-decent woodworker. It wasn't what I hoped for--- I had hoped to be a GREAT woodworker. ... hasn't happened. But, I'll keep working on it..... and, power tools do not tend to "further my education."
But, it's true, if I have to repeatably do anything, power tools become useful. But, if there is something you need to do just once, use the hand tools. Anyone that's ever used a hand tool knows that the gratification of holding a tool in your hand that may have been around for a hundred years. 100 YEARS!!!!! ...Just imagine the hands, colonies, countries, ships, and different sociology spectrum's that tool could have gone through.
My friends and family genuinely ask me, "Why have you become obsessed with old tools?"
"Well, it's the same reason I've always been obsessed with history, accept that now history is tangible."
I guess that's the best way I can explain it--- history is now tangible. Who would have thought I could avoid being an archeologist, and have hundreds of "artifacts" in my office?
Well, that's all for now, folks
cheers,
bird.
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Scott wrote:
>If I need to do it once, hand. If I need to do it 30 times, power.
Exactly. I reproduce moldings from time to time. Somebody needs an apron for their Victorian window. Used to be, to have it run at a mill, $85 for set up, and $75 for grinding the knives (and they didn't check to see if they had any knives already ground). For a few feet, it's done by hand with old tools, about half an hour.
One-offs are cheaper. For a hundred linear feet, go to the mill.
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I was at a tractor show in '90 or '91 with my Gipson tractor. A fellow looked at my tractor and asked why I didn't wash my tractor before coming to the show. I asked him to look at my cultivators. He asked why are these weeds back here. I replied that I plowed my garden before coming to the show. He was shocked. His response was that the tractor was an antique and I needed to only use it in tractor shows and buy a modern tractor to plow with. My response was that the tractor was made in '46 and I was made in '44. I'm not an antique and my tractor is not either and everything that stays at our house works.
I had just gotten a 355 Mossberg ratchet and pressed steel socket set from Papaw. For some reason I had unloaded my tools from my truck and this was the only tools I had. We were out on a landscape job, when our tiller belt started slipping, while we were racing incoming rain. I pulled out the Mossberg set, fixed the tiller and beat the rain.
I love the feel of old tools and when they are treated with respect are wonderful to use especially if they belonged to, or were made by a relative or someone you knew. Of course you respect the tool and don't do dumb things like use cheater bars, etc.
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>I pulled out the Mossberg set, fixed the tiller and beat the rain.
>I love the feel of old tools and when they are treated with respect are wonderful to use ...
That's me all over. My Plomb breaker bar with its Herbrand 3/4 socket has a permanent
home in my van. I use it every time I change a flat or rotate the wheels.
I'm a tool user, and don't lose an opportunity to let my guys do a job. With respect, always.
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I use my OLD tools, Some were my Dad's, Mother's and Grandmothers's- others found. It does save me from having to buy throwaways--cannot afford good overpriced tools but if necessary will borrow and lend among friends.
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To paraphrase the old engine guys.
Tools were not invented to do work, work was invented so that you could use tools'
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If you have a Hit and Miss engine you had better have tools and know how to use them!!!
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Today just to see if it would work, I put a Philips drive tip in a Stanley brace and drive some #10 wood screws. Worked better than anything else that I have used.
Ray
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I have put 3 inch screws in that way, the ratcheting braces work surprising well for doing that...
(Works for slotted screws too, something that does not work well for electric drivers ; P)
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With a very large slot screw, a brace is pretty much the only way.
Pre-drill and drive them right in.
yours Scott
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When it comes to power tools I usually go with the new stuff.
Now like intsance about the eggbeater I wouldnt use mine. It works great and all but I can bring my cordless an do it just as good,just as quik. I have a small 12 volt an a normal 18 volt witch works for most jobs. If I need to Ile break out the 28 volt cordless we have at work(my cousins my boss and doesnt mind if i borrow tools) Rarely exept for boring large wholes an drilling multiple wholes in concrete will I use a corded drill. With the new lithium ion batteries I use those. I have several batteries so I just change em out as i go. by time ime done with one battery theres still 3 more full an one on the charger. I never run low on batteries.
For hand tools I use my older tools the perfect handles, adjustbles, folding rules, etc
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When it comes to power tools I usually go with the new stuff.
Now like intsance about the eggbeater I wouldnt use mine. It works great and all but I can bring my cordless an do it just as good,just as quik. I have a small 12 volt an a normal 18 volt witch works for most jobs. If I need to Ile break out the 28 volt cordless we have at work(my cousins my boss and doesnt mind if i borrow tools) Rarely exept for boring large wholes an drilling multiple wholes in concrete will I use a corded drill. With the new lithium ion batteries I use those. I have several batteries so I just change em out as i go. by time ime done with one battery theres still 3 more full an one on the charger. I never run low on batteries.
For hand tools I use my older tools the perfect handles, adjustbles, folding rules, etc
I love my cordless drills, and pretty much use them daily. But I have to say that hand drills and braces do some things better. Especially if you're restoring woodwork, you often have to really feel what's happening at the end of the drill. Can't do that with any electric drill in my experience. I have hundred year old center bits -- they do things no twist drill will do, so I use them.
When I was building sets, I was using my cordless 8 to 13 hours a day. Spare batteries are the only way to go. I always kept three on hand, because it was possible to use the battery up in less than an hour. I still carry at least one loaded spare battery, and make sure it's full of juice the night before.
Just about all my old tools are my favorites. Each one does some job better than any other.
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My problem with cordless is that they keep changing the batteries and when I need a new battery, you know they get to where they won't hold a charge, the battery I need is no longer available and I have to get a new drill.
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I used an old Williams female drive ratchet and an old Duro extension/breaker (Both purchased on this forum) today to remove the flywheel on this....
http://www.youtube.com/embed/WnWCl_MYT1k
so I could install some new ignition parts. I also used an old BBB (Binghams Best Brand) flat tip screwdriver for all the screws.
Vintage tools rock!!
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Super cool Keykeeper. What are you going to use the Ecno for when you get it restored?
I have a B,&S. washing machine engine that I going to put on a vineyard sprayer that I'm restoring.
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Super cool Keykeeper. What are you going to use the Ecno for when you get it restored?
Haven't decided yet, Stoney. I'm either going to use it to drive a grinding arbor mounted above the engine on a tool stand, or a forge blower (for demos). I figure this little engine putt-putting might draw in people!!
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Outstanding. That is something I have been wanting to do.
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> I figure this little engine putt-putting might draw in people!!
I went to a show once where a fellow was running one the size of a small car. Every time it popped off people ducked for cover. The fellow told me he had it running as slow as he could make it go, because flat out you couldn't talk to anyone if you were satanding within 1000 ft of the thing ;P
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My problem with cordless is that they keep changing the batteries and when I need a new battery, you know they get to where they won't hold a charge, the battery I need is no longer available and I have to get a new drill.
Makes me nuts! A good tool made useless because the manufacturer changed the shape/size of the battery -- fah! But Pawpa came to the rescue!
Batteries Plus probably has what you need:
http://www.batteriesplus.com/
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I'm either going to use it to drive a grinding arbor mounted above the engine on a tool stand, or a forge blower (for demos). I figure this little engine putt-putting might draw in people!!
Might draw people, but I just follow my nose to blacksmith demos -- that and/or the ring of work on the anvil seems to be a big drawer.
But, dang! That thing is cool!
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Might draw people, but I just follow my nose to blacksmith demos -- that and/or the ring of work on the anvil seems to be a big drawer.
But, dang! That thing is cool!
I have a small anvil that really rings that will bring in spectators, but man is it hard on the ears after a while!
The coal smoke will bring 'em in also. I'll probably just do the grinding stand idea, just to have another tool setup at my disposal. May put a brass and steel brush on it: one for scale removal, one for coloring pieces brass!
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That's a cool idea Keykeeper.
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My problem with cordless is that they keep changing the batteries and when I need a new battery, you know they get to where they won't hold a charge, the battery I need is no longer available and I have to get a new drill.
Makes me nuts! A good tool made useless because the manufacturer changed the shape/size of the battery -- fah! But Pawpa came to the rescue!
Batteries Plus probably has what you need:
http://www.batteriesplus.com/
Thanks to both of you about batteries plus.
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When it comes to power tools I usually go with the new stuff.
Now like intsance about the eggbeater I wouldnt use mine. It works great and all but I can bring my cordless an do it just as good,just as quik. I have a small 12 volt an a normal 18 volt witch works for most jobs. If I need to Ile break out the 28 volt cordless we have at work(my cousins my boss and doesnt mind if i borrow tools) Rarely exept for boring large wholes an drilling multiple wholes in concrete will I use a corded drill. With the new lithium ion batteries I use those. I have several batteries so I just change em out as i go. by time ime done with one battery theres still 3 more full an one on the charger. I never run low on batteries.
For hand tools I use my older tools the perfect handles, adjustbles, folding rules, etc
I love my cordless drills, and pretty much use them daily. But I have to say that hand drills and braces do some things better. Especially if you're restoring woodwork, you often have to really feel what's happening at the end of the drill. Can't do that with any electric drill in my experience. I have hundred year old center bits -- they do things no twist drill will do, so I use them.
When I was building sets, I was using my cordless 8 to 13 hours a day. Spare batteries are the only way to go. I always kept three on hand, because it was possible to use the battery up in less than an hour. I still carry at least one loaded spare battery, and make sure it's full of juice the night before.
Just about all my old tools are my favorites. Each one does some job better than any other.
Yeh, doing fine cabinet work when I helped install cabinets or the time I made window boxes an some other fine projects I rely on my braces.
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I'll use anything. At least everything I got!
Well, actually there are few kinds and sizes of drill I don't have a lot of occasion to use, (like the super heavy Yankee breast drills)
But I would heheheheheheheeh
Anyhoo, drill batteries can be rebuilt and for considerably cheaper than buying factory batteries.
Stronger batteries for a much lower price. Its not -that- bad a job.
But even the best batteries are invariably weak or dead when the chips are down.
What I use most, and need more and better of, are small 110v drills.
A good 3000rpm drill can be had easy enough. And really crappy oversized plastic 1500's are available easy too.
But a good small 1000rpm 3/8" drill, that is fairly lightweight but no shortage of torque?
More of these I am having trouble locating.
Keep your eyes peeled? Everyone made them once.
1000rpm more or less, 4 or 5 amps would be ideal, and as small and light as triple reduction drills allow.
I need a couple spares.
I am kind of glad sometimes I grew up before battery tools were introduced.
yours Scott
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I only use my little tablesaw in the basement shop when ABSOLUTELY necessary. Even with the shop vac hooked to it, there is too much mess. Yesterday I took my new Stanley 3258 miterbox for a test drive. First thing I discovered was that the backsaw had never been sharpened. It just barely scratched the oak. So, I sharpened it. 13 teeth per inch X 28 inches is a lot of teeth! After I was done, I cut the board. Scott's right, I had forgotten how nice it feels to make a cut with a nice sharp handsaw.
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I'll use anything. At least everything I got!
Well, actually there are few kinds and sizes of drill I don't have a lot of occasion to use, (like the super heavy Yankee breast drills)
But I would heheheheheheheeh
Anyhoo, drill batteries can be rebuilt and for considerably cheaper than buying factory batteries.
Stronger batteries for a much lower price. Its not -that- bad a job.
But even the best batteries are invariably weak or dead when the chips are down.
What I use most, and need more and better of, are small 110v drills.
A good 3000rpm drill can be had easy enough. And really crappy oversized plastic 1500's are available easy too.
But a good small 1000rpm 3/8" drill, that is fairly lightweight but no shortage of torque?
More of these I am having trouble locating.
Keep your eyes peeled? Everyone made them once.
1000rpm more or less, 4 or 5 amps would be ideal, and as small and light as triple reduction drills allow.
I need a couple spares.
I am kind of glad sometimes I grew up before battery tools were introduced.
yours Scott
I have a half inch millwakee magnum, and a 3/8 millwakee. Oh an of course the big old millwakee whole hog but most jobs she stays in the case.
I recomend a millwakee for a drill. I would check this one out. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200408313_200408313
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I was given a Milwaukee 1/2 inch magnum, one of those with a detachable cord. But no cord. I found cords online, but $30 seems a little steep. Any ideas where I could find one for less?
Scott, how do you rebuild a battery?
For slow, heavy drilling, I've got my old 1/2 inch Thor, which runs at 400 rpm and cannot be stopped or slowed down.
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I was given a Milwaukee 1/2 inch magnum, one of those with a detachable cord. But no cord. I found cords online, but $30 seems a little steep. Any ideas where I could find one for less?
Scott, how do you rebuild a battery?
First I save old cords from burnt out tool that are good. Finding a match for your Milwaukee you can just slide on for less than retail? Will likely not happen. But you can open the case and do a little plastic surgery on the handle, and splice on any old Sears or B&D or whatever that still has its strain relief block/connector. It won't be detachable, but too bad. heehehehe
Rebuilding a battery is not that hard.
Shop for, any buy, enough sub c batteries.
When you begin to look, you will see many tools come with 1200 to 1500 (milli amp hour) batteries. Replacement sub c's you can get all the way to 2900mah. This is near double the power the tool came with new, also double what a factory replacement has.
Any battery you buy will be coming from Hong Kong where the big factories are. There are no US battery makers left. Eliminate some of the middlemen and buy closer to direct.
Be sure to order batteries with tabs!!! You cannot solder the little tabs on yourself!!!
Here are 12 NI-CD (ni-cad) 2500mah batteries (with tabs) for $17 (shipping included!). This will rebuild a 14.4v tool.
(Take any voltage written on the tool and divide by 1.2 to get the proper number of batteries for your own tool. )
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-x-Sub-C-SubC-1-2V-2500mAh-Ni-Cd-Rechargeable-Battery-/270859955003?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item3f1082eb3b (http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-x-Sub-C-SubC-1-2V-2500mAh-Ni-Cd-Rechargeable-Battery-/270859955003?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item3f1082eb3b)
These are 2500 mah so roughly 75% stronger than what your tool came with.
Take you old battery apart. There will be 4 small screws holding the case together.
Look over the battery pack well and copy it.
Arrange your new batteries in the exact same way. Each tab connects to its neighbor the same as your old pack.
I like to stand the old and new side by side and cross check as I work.
You may have a long jumper you need to cut off the old pack but you'll have enough tabs to make up when you solder it up.
A little tape will hold your new batteries in a block shape while you work.
Take any soldering iron and solder them together. I use good old lead solder (60/40 is common) but use whatever you like. I recommend extra flux, always.
Nobody puts enough flux inside solder for me, I don't care whose it is. I get Nocorode solder flux and brush it on every joint.
When you have enough flux you can substitute solid wire solder if you like. Its cheaper.
That's it. Clean up extra flux with a clean cloth and re-assemble your battery pack.
The first time you charge and use it, you will be totally blown away how much power your old tool has!
yours Scott
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WOW
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Rebuilding a battery is not that hard.
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So the Wood guy, and I mean THE Wood guy, schools us on battery rebuilds ??
Best forum community on the Net !! Excellent, practical write up, Thanks.
Brian L.
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WOW
Yeah! WOW me too!