The Oily Shop Project

[rusty]

>There are teeth/cutter inserts that go in on the backside of the die.  Can anybody here further educate me on the why, what, how of this?

The dies with inserts are the older form. They were made this way because the old guys did not know how to harden the threaded part without making the overall die brittle, so they made them in 2 parts, the threaded inserts are hard as heck, the outer holder is mild steel.

These were usually called 'screw plates' when offered in sets, allthough they bear no resemblence to the classic blacksmith's screw plate...(a plate that looks sorta like a trowel with a bunch of threaded holes in it)

The dies with a slit and a setscrew are so you can fine adjust the thread diameter as the die wears out....

[OilyRascal]

The dies with inserts are the older form. They were made this way because the old guys did not know how to harden the threaded part without making the overall die brittle, so they made them in 2 parts, the threaded inserts are hard as heck, the outer holder is mild steel.

These were usually called 'screw plates' when offered in sets, allthough they bear no resemblence to the classic blacksmith's screw plate...(a plate that looks sorta like a trowel with a bunch of threaded holes in it)

The dies with a slit and a setscrew are so you can fine adjust the thread diameter as the die wears out....

Thanks for that!  I guess I'm still a little confused.  I recall (and can't confirm with a good picture) them having a die thread already made into the die, and then those "inserts" would sleeve in on the reverse side; basically presenting a die on either side of the overall holder with a small hollow opening left between them.  Why two?  Is one hardened, and the other not?  Maybe I missed something in your explanation.  I'm slow sometimes to "get it" :) - bear with me.

Makes a lot of sense on the "split" die.  In looking at it's holder/wrench I was suspicious of the placement of the setscrews.  Was wondering "why not just place them across from each other each side".  Now I understand that.

.........Have you thought about using electrolysis to remove the rust?

Many thanks, John!  The explanation on taps will help me with some basic sorting effort.  I would hope I eventually need access to them based on their use.  I do plan to use them again.

I have "considered" electrolysis, and studied it on several occasions.  As I think back I'm unclear why I've not tried it.  Doesn't seem all that complicated to setup.  Maybe I should reconsider; or at least re-read up.  I would be interested to know if anybody could concoct (sp?) a concern with using vinegar on them.

[rusty]

>Why two? 

That is yet a different kind of holder (there were about a dozen ways to do the same thing). The 2 sided die is a thread cutter on one side, and the other hole is just to keep the bolt/rod/whatever straight so you don't cross thread it.

PS: The die with 5 holes and funny edges is likely a thread chaser....
(Snap-on/blue point sets came with dies that look like that)

[oldtools]

Great collection of Taps, Dies & reamers... 
Like John.K said Taps typically come in 3 types.  (cutting threads in stages reduces the stress on each tap to avoid breaking, Also cutting fluid helps!!.)
#1 starter tap to ream & start threads through a hole, note thicker body to teeth for strength, also if threaded through hole will cut to a ~class 4 fit.
#2 Tap, continues cutting a threaded hole to size, also good chaser & will thread fit to class 3. (Typical fit)
#3 Bottom Tap to cut to the bottom of blind holes, note cross section of body is thin, so be careful..
Note class 5 fit (interference fit) special taps.

[oldtools]

"About ready to eat $300 for K-D master king pin reamer set"

have you tried a local machine shop? getting work estimate or renting? unless you plan on doing this job a lot!

[OilyRascal]

"About ready to eat $300 for K-D master king pin reamer set"

have you tried a local machine shop? getting work estimate or renting? unless you plan on doing this job a lot!

A very good friend owns a machine shop locally - about 3 miles from here.  I haven't even thought to mention the problem.  I don't care to ask for favors, and somehow that's what it would turn into because I know my money wouldn't be taken.

I'm very much of the opinion if you need a tool, you need the tool.  A many of times in my life I have taken the money I would have paid someone else to do a job, and been able to buy the tool required and do the job myself......leaving me the tool to use again someday.  I have three 1961-1966 trucks that I'm working to restore where it (this reamer) has an application.  I'm of the belief I need the tool.  It (changing bushing/pin) is a seemingly easy task with the right tools, doesn't cost much in consumables to do them, makes a big difference in the quality of the driving, positively impacts tire wear, and more generally there seems to be a market for being able to do them.     

Appreciate your thoughts, OT.

[OilyRascal]

I've hit a brick wall in my attempts to repair this guy:





The problem I'm having is with this linking the electric motor to the gearbox.  There is part of the original makeup that is broken, and bent.  I was near certain I remember'd this motor coming from a can opener, but now I'm starting to second guess that memory.  I'm good with wood skills, but weak with metal and engineering. 

To the left you'll see the broken/bent stem.







I'm seeking opinions on how to approach fixing it (this linkage).  It would mean alot to me to have it back in operable condition.

[oldgoaly]

Is the motor "locked" into a spot that it can't be moved to make up for the broken shaft?
It looks like the shaft is crimped over the motor shaft, with some work the shaft can be removed.
 Also a overlapping coupler could be made in a lathe pretty easily or maybe a short pc of copper tube might work if you have some handy.

[rusty]

For the torque involved, heat shrink tubing would probably work as a repair coupler, or rubber hose.

That motor is typically what is used in fans.
But that one is old, the cloth ribbon and paperboard insulation says 1960's or earlier...

It is really an overgrown clock motor...

They were common and cheap, they got used in all kinds of things, so a can opener isn't impossible, the gearbox parts look like about the right speed reduction....

You will not get that shaft out of the motor without destroying the motor, the inner laminations are pressed over it, it holds the rotor together...

Plan B: Hit the flea for old can openers ;P
  Even if the parts don't match, it is about the right speed I would think (a few revoloutions a second)...
You will have to mount gearbox parts in a new places tho....

[OilyRascal]

As it turns out the gearbox wasn't functioning correctly either.  I opened it up and found a point of failure in the attachment of a plastic gear to a metal gear.  It seems the adhesive failed.  Any thoughts on proper methods to adhere the two?  I will research just curious about real life experience with plastic on metal in torqued situations.





I should have noted the motor works....spins round and round.   The shaft has about 3/8" vertical play/slack.  I'm not sure if that is supposed to be raised upon the motor spinning up, if it is just slack in the design, or if its wear.

Is the motor "locked" into a spot that it can't be moved to make up for the broken shaft?

I think I could "reposition" it, but I'm under the assumption I still need the spiral gear on the tip of the shaft to engage the gearbox.  Maybe that gear could be relocated to a short shaft.

..........Plan B: Hit the flea for old can openers ;P
  Even if the parts don't match, it is about the right speed I would think (a few revoloutions a second)...
You will have to mount gearbox parts in a new places tho....

Thank you, Rusty.  I like where you're going with that.  I did find "gear assortment" packs online cheap enough, so I think I could regear if needed.  How do you feel about a DC powered gear motor of the $5 - $10 variety?  Would it pull it and how are the speeds compared to say a can opener?

[bonneyman]

Oily, just stumbled upon your thread, and I've been glued to it for the past two days reading all the posts from start to finish. And my back hurts just thinking about all the work you've done!

Your oil rig motor looks like a C-frame. Sears used to make these evaporative coolers where little motors like this rotated pads into a water trough (instead of the standard way of using a water pump to put the water on the top of wood shaving pads and drip down by gravity). They were 115 volt and geared down to turn at a relatively slow rate. And they would always lock up, burn out, seize due to bad lube, etc. Most guys just replaced them - I learned how to disassemble them, clean and lube, and reinstall and they worked fine.
Don't know if that model of motor is still made but here's a link:

http://www.fasco.com/distribution/products/c-frame-motors/

[bear_man]

     Oily, vinegar is acidic, albeit fairly weak, all I've seen about cleanup afterwards is neutralizing it.  Then, of course, the newly-cleaned surfaces are so nekkid that a light coat of an oil would be appropriate.  Otherwise, the project will start to rust within a very short time. 
     I've fantasized about springing for a barrel of vinegar and keeping it around, but I'm not sure in what kind of material (and don't like plastic).  I once tried to clean some needles for a Damascus (Ward's brand) treadle sewing machine and left them in too long.  When I finally tried to look at them, they were gone!  Note to self…