Hand Planes

[Jim C.]

Navaja,

Once again, thanks for stopping by the thread all the way from Spain, and for posting some interesting content.  I sincerely hope that you do make it through the entire thread, and keep posting along the way. ANYTHING hand plane related is welcome here.  I’m not too well versed in older wood planes, however, I have made a few wooden planes and find that when properly tuned and set for a fine pass, they can produce remarkably good results.  I made a small scraper that seems to be one I use regularly.  I’d enjoy seeing more planes from your collection and would strongly encourage you to post more content if you are able to.  I’d also like to see what you use your planes to make.  The rest of the gang here would probably appreciate it too! 

Jim C.

[Jim C.]

Navaja,

You mentioned above having a few old Stanley and Sargent planes. I’m a little more familiar with them than I am with wooden planes.  Anyway, you added a comment and photo reminding us of Sargent’s willingness to also provide consumers with planes manufactured with corrugated soles.  If you keep reading through the thread, eventually you’ll come across my posts talking specifically about Sargent Autoset planes.  This series of planes was marketed as Sargent’s premium bench style plane.  They’re very unique looking and they provide very nice results when set properly and outfitted with a sharp cutting iron.  Not too long ago I came across one of the true rarities within the Sargent Autoset lineup.  The plane I’m talking about is the #711C.  This is the Jack plane size.  Sargent also offered a #711 (non corrugated sole) that was in production between 1922 and 1941.  What makes the #711C collectible is the fact that it was only manufactured for a few years, 1922 to 1925.  If you collect and appreciate old Sargent planes, keep an eye out for the Autosets, and if you see a #711C, grab it!

Jim C.

[Navaja]

      That's a nice scraper plane you made Jim 👍

      I'm maybe more of a hoarder than a collector! I don't look for anything in particular but it's simply a case of whatever comes along that I like, generally it needs to be cheap unless it's something special & I usually need to believe (or have the illusion!) that I'll I use it one day....     There is very little choice here in Southern Spain, most of anything quality that I've found has often got here along with a foreigner & all their possessions moving to sunnier climes, the chances of finding something like the Sargent autoset are nil to zero.. I did read your earlier post, I'm at page 36 & you've certainly posted some interesting reading as well as the other contributors, I've learned so much.

    My woodworking has been very varied from green wood, draw knives & a shave horse, carving, handle making for chisels, forged & pocket folding knives that I've made, pretty much anything except fine woodwork therefore I haven't used planes as much as I'd like to.

   I did get to do quite a bit of hand planing as pictured below though, a table I made during COVID lockdown, I wasn't working & there was a lot of used timber being thrown out on an apartment block being built nearby, door surrounds & pallets, etc....
   The Sargent 422c was in poor shape when I found it but cleaned up pretty well & it was that and a newer Stanley no4 that I'd made into a scrub that did all the flatting from rough stacked boards, no power tools were used, that really was a workout.









   

[Navaja]

   The metal planes I have consist of the Sergeant & a Stanley #7 from the same era with a flat sole that I bought from an ex Pattern maker from the UK, I'd bought one or two small woodworking items from him when we got chatting & he told me about the pattern making he used to do, when pattern making all but disappeared he fitted kitchens til he retired, he mentioned he still had his No7 & would I like it...... So I bought that from him & he explained more about the "art" of pattern making, very interesting & from then on I've thought of many questions I'd like to ask but sadly never saw him again.
  My metal bodied planes are common users such as a couple of Stanley type 15 #4s (England  & USA) a #4 1/2, my #5 at the moment is a Whitmore til either a Stanley or Record comes along & a 1950's #6 Record which I like (all of them English).  To be honest even the Whitmore is alright it just needs more attention to get it to a usable state.

    My wooden planes haven't seen any serious use other than me just playing with them, they have been collected over many years & used to (til I moved) be displayed like ornaments along with other old tools in my home, I'd much rather look at a lovely old tool than some of the things folks have as "ornaments"!
    The irons often have some lovely markings, Peugeot of France having enough marks to fill a small book!

French, Spanish, British, German.

[Jim C.]

 Navaja,

That table is really cool!  It looks like functional artwork.  I like that a lot. When I’m making a piece, I try to think a little bit outside of the box.  The object is to make something one is not expecting to see.  I recently completed the first of two small bed side tables. I guess you’d call them nightstands. My intent was to make them look “open and airy.”  So, I made a floating top and left the back and sides of the case without panels.  I’m sure it will fill up with dust over time, as my wife pointed out.  But, it looks cool!  Needless to say, a variety of planes were used during the build.

Jim C.

[mikeswrenches]

I like it!! Especially the floating top. Nice job Jim!

  Mike

[Jim C.]

Hey Mike,

Good to hear from you!  Thanks for stopping by the thread.  I’m glad you like the nightstand.  That floating top wasn’t too hard to make. The trick is to hide as much of the supporting framework below it as possible.  I tried to make it so the observer would really have to bend over to see what’s going on underneath the top.  I included a closeup photo of the supporting framework. 

Jim C.

[lptools]

Hello, Jim C . Thanks for the closeup of the floating top. Great idea, and great result!!

[Jim C.]

Thanks Lou!  I appreciate the kind words. 

Jim C.

[Navaja]

   Lovely tables Jim 👍

   I’ve read the whole thread... Some very interesting stuff, as well as all the Plane history I also like the wooden planes you’ve made, very nice.  A nice mortíce plane from Bill Houghton & the amazing miniature work of Art Rafael, wow, a shame he doesn’t look in anymore.  Anyone else’s work I’ve missed I apologise.

   I’m sorting & cleaning my planes after storage hasn’t been too kind, no real harm done just some light rust. I packed them with the intention of unpacking again after a short while so took no precautions other than the little oil or wax they already had on them that wasn’t much, well life decided they would still be stored 18 months later so it’s a good job this thread motivated me.  I forgot a couple of little block planes one being a Record 220 that I’ll photograph as it differs from the Stanley in that it appears to have a smaller mouth.

    One wooden plane might have some worm damage, it’s something that’s a real killer of wood in this part of the world, especially antiques & requires a little vigilance so they are taking turns having a couple of days in the freezer! Better safe than sorry.

     Pictured are two German planes, one old & past it’s best due to a worn out iron & the other a smoother made by Ulmia Ott, this is an old one without a chip breaker, white Beach & Hornbeam I believe. The factory closed down some years ago but is now again producing probably Germany’s finest wooden planes along with E.C.E
   Images just to show the right handed horns which were mentioned a few days ago for me, a few years ago for everyone else. 😄

[Jim C.]

Navaja, 

Thanks for sharing a couple of your planes with us.  I hope you get them back in good working order and start using them  again.  Looking back in the thread, we covered a lot of ground and I can’t say enough about those who have stuck with the thread all these years, and contributed content along the way. I’m impressed that you read through the entire thread in such a short amount of time. I’ve gone back and read more than a few of the topics and have fallen asleep. I’ve always wondered who’s reading this thing, and more than once thought it might be those who need a sleep aid.     Anyway, welcome aboard, and many thanks for your interest in the Hand Plane thread. I hope you’ll keep checking in and keep posting hand plane related content.

Jim C.

[Bill Houghton]

I'm left-handed, and have held a few right-handed "horned" planes.  The horn is just not comfortable at all in the wrong hand.  It's interesting, because, on newer planes, the asymmetry is very subtle; but just enough that it won't work well in the wrong hand.

[Navaja]

Navaja, 
 I’m impressed that you read through the entire thread in such a short amount of time. I’ve gone back and read more than a few of the topics and have fallen asleep. I’ve always wondered who’s reading this thing, and more than once thought it might be those who need a sleep aid.
Jim C.

      Well I can't tell a lie, I didn't read e-v-e-r-y word... 😉 but I did read the majority of it, & yes it was sometimes very late night (or early morning) reading for me due to strange work commitments right now.

I'm left-handed, and have held a few right-handed "horned" planes.  The horn is just not comfortable at all in the wrong hand.  It's interesting, because, on newer planes, the asymmetry is very subtle; but just enough that it won't work well in the wrong hand.

     It's quite something that it's so noticeable to you & just goes to demonstrate how ergonomic these planes are, I'd like to try a left handed plane to experience it for myself as it's not the same pretending to be left handed, it just doesn't work.     
   
     Right back somewhere in the middle Jim (P49 #734) you wrote of the lowly 220, and yes it's not exactly anything to get excited about but something I noticed that differs from my Record 220 is the size of the mouth.   
     I only have a Stanley 110 to compare to which isn't necessarily the same as the 220 but it's mouth is about 4.5mm (11/64"?) whereas the Record 220's mouth is about 2.5mm (3/32"?).  I just thought it strange it's a big difference & the image of your Stanley 220 looks similar to my 110's mouth.      Maybe goes some way to explaining it's low expectations?
     
    As you can see in the images my 220's a worker! 
    My Record 220s mouth.
    Jim's Stanley's 220 mouth (with some iron showing).
    Record 220 & Stanley 110.
   

[Jim C.]

“Well I can't tell a lie, I didn't read e-v-e-r-y word... 😉 but I did read the majority of it, & yes it was sometimes very late night (or early morning) reading for me due to strange work commitments right now.”

Navaja,

I won’t hold it against you.  There have been plenty of times when I’d write this stuff and wonder if anyone would be able to read it without dozing off.  I’ll admit that I’ve gone back to read various posts and got sleepy doing so.  Some of them are really long winded.  I’ll have to pull out an old plane and write another tome if you’re up for it.

If you’re comparing the differences in the throat openings between a #220 and a #110, well, it could have something to do with the bedded angles of cutting irons.  I think both planes will perform well if not asked to do things they weren’t designed to do. Both were basic utility planes made for basic work.  Set them for a light pass and make sure the irons are SUPER SHARP!  When used mostly on long grain versus end grain, they’ll do an acceptable job.  If you’re making high end cabinetry or furniture, I’d probably opt for something with an iron bedded at a low angle and with an adjustable throat.  Any model from the Stanley “60” series of block planes would likely be a better choice.

Jim C.

[Navaja]

 Hello Jim. 

     I have re-read my post (deleted some slightly irrelevant ramblings 😄) & realise it isn't that clear what I was saying...... or even why!
    The second image down is my Record 220, the third your Stanley 220 (edited) from your post 734.
     I was just surprised at the two different 220's having such a difference in mouth size. I understand the cheap basic utility of this model, but imagine those two don't perform the same, if it matters.....

     The only decent block plane I have is the as yet not properly used Lie Nielson 9 1/2 I've (hopefully) salvaged.    As I don't posses a truly low angle plane it's something that's on my list.
    Any fine finishes in the past I've achieved with a Card Scraper, thought I wouldn't want to have to scrape a very large area it's something I actually enjoy the process of. The wooden scraper you made is also inspiration, I intend to make a scraper, it's just a case of organising a suitable blade before I can start......