Tool Talk
Blacksmith and Metal Working Forum => Blacksmith and Metalworking Forum => Topic started by: OilyRascal on March 01, 2012, 10:14:01 PM
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I thought I'd share today's find while working in the garden. The number of things I've unearthed is almost comical at this point.
I've made no attempt at cleaning it up or ID'ing it. I, admittedly, don't know my hammers well enough to look at an ole rusty glob and ID it. I'll have to research.
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Walk that sledge hammer head right over to the power wire brush, looks pretty solid yet, 3-4lb. ? I'd be delighted to dig something like that out of my garden, all I find are rusty nails, and bits of old broken Mason jars.
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Likely some poor farmer was hammering in a fence post and it flew off the handle and vanished in the tall grass, leading to an hour of swearing and cussing ;P
Dunno if you can id it, everyone with a foundry made those, but it's hard to wear one out, add a handle and you are good to go :)
All I ever found in the garden was rocks, lots and lots of rocks...
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Likely some poor farmer was hammering in a fence post and it flew off the handle
More likely where a barn or storage building was at some point. This isn't the first tool I've found.
Dunno if you can id it
Appears to be a 5lb with an A inside a horseshoe, unlike the Diamond Horseshoe logo (no diamond across horseshoe)
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A couple more hammers I've found in the same area. Charles E. Hall and Vlchek?
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The A in a horseshoe would make it an Atha hammer, how do you get so lucky? LOL
Hmm, starting to look like you are digging up a blacksmiths shop ;P
Lemme know when you find the forge...
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how do you get so lucky? LOL
lol - Is that lucky? I'm going to buy a metal detector - me thinks.
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a 5lb Atha (really unusual size from a great, some say the best, hammer maker)
and now a marked 3 pound cross pein?? You're killin me here!!
You better at least borrow a metal detector!! Holy Mackerel.
This is not your average unmarked bell pein and claw hammer heads.
Pretty desirable stuff!
yours Scott
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Upon further research - it seems its possible the Charles E. Hall marked hammer may pre-date 1914 acquisition by Barcala
Quoting AA
"1914 Barcalo Manufacturing acquired the operations of the Charles E. Hall Company"
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Papaw,
Does Tooltalk have a garden suckage award?
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I think a "found suckage awared" would be cool.
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I think a "found suckage awared" would be cool.
Me too! That's some serious hardware! Only things that have turned up in my yard are some crappy rusted beyond use Taiwan DOEs.
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Hey Oily,
What's the history of your property? Where was the smithy in El Dorado? Are you in an old part of town? I guess what I'm asking is, is there a reason that there are really good hammers in your garden? By the way, anyone that gardens using a Ford 555 is a serious gardener!
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Hey Oily,
What's the history of your property? Where was the smithy in El Dorado? Are you in an old part of town? I guess what I'm asking is, is there a reason that there are really good hammers in your garden? By the way, anyone that gardens using a Ford 555 is a serious gardener!
The property has been in the family for as long as this area has been settled. It is now ~200 acres of the original 1200 in the estate. I've heard stories of several houses (including slave houses) on the estate over the years. There are currently two houses and an old barn on the property (Barn tools another good discussion). It was, according to all I've been told, a cotton farming estate that turned quickly oil boom in the early 1920s. The property, and all available facilities, were used to board oil workers during the boom and never went back to it's full farming operations. I'm told both current houses were built by my great grandfather and gg-grandfather, starting in 1928, with cash money raised from boarding in the oil boom. After the houses were completed all older structures were torn down. It's unclear if the old barn was torn down at that time, or if it was torn down at some later date. It is also unclear when the barn that remains was built - so I can't work from that even if I assumed one was torn down with the other completed.
The items I've unearthed from the soil on the property mostly appear to me to be consistent with farming. I'll grab some pictures tomorrow, but the list includes hillers, breaking plows, splitting wedges, hand cuffs?, horse shoes, hammers, metal rings of various sizes from 2" to 12" in diameter, single tree, and such.
I have a very rough idea where a barnyard was located based on the soil conditions. The objects I continue to find are in the immediate area of the distinct soil conditions. I suspect distinct soil conditions = lots of very old poop.
That 555 is by no means a gardening tractor :) - although it did come in very handy last year harvesting muscadines and scupinines from 25-30' up. I have a 3610 I use for the heavy garden work until I can get this Farmall back in one piece. However, I now all together avoid that area with any heavy equipment.....only the rear-tine shall go there for a while. I have, to my own dismay, done a good bit of dozer work in that general area over the last year.....so there is no telling what I've done to myself here.
I'm trying to get my hands on a metal detector and survey that area a little better.
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I should also add that my grandmother, who is still alive at 89, lives on the property in the other house built by her father and grandfather. Although she is alive, she was 5 years old at the time of the current houses being built. She has lived in one house or the other her entire life. I try to be listen as much as I can and ask questions when I'm not listening, but its very difficult to get clear answers on the history of things here. I quote "the trees just take you over.........and I forget".
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Wow, thats some rich history you got there. I would love to get a metal detector on that property.
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Rascal,
Those are some nice hammers. That Vlchek would be correct for the 1940's era and up Chevrolet tool kits ( http://1940chevrolet.com/files/images/hammer.jpg ). With a proper handle, and in good shape, they bring decent money to collectors trying to assemble the various kits!!
The handcuffs.....now I would love to see a picture of those. If those are the old style "manacles" that is a great find. You did mention slave houses. http://rmc.library.cornell.edu/abolitionism/slave_life/Life_in_Bondage_pic1.htm
Keep digging, you may unearth Jimmy Hoffa!!!
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The handcuffs.....now I would love to see a picture of those. If those are the old style "manacles" that is a great find. You did mention slave houses. http://rmc.library.cornell.edu/abolitionism/slave_life/Life_in_Bondage_pic1.htm
Thanks for the information! The handcuffs may not be for hands. I've had my own hands cuffed with research on other tools and haven't looked. Picture below.
Slave Houses, YES. I can tell you exactly where the last that remained was. She calls it "Pete's place". It's on the hill on the way out. There is a huge oak looks 150+ marking the yard. He, and his family, were the only freed slaves that chose to stay and work on the farm post slavery. The land was later given to them and then came back to the family after they passed.
I can't imagine ever letting any of those things I've found around here go, unless there was some real historical significance where it was just the right thing to do. I'm hoping documentation will keep such things from scrap or $1 garage sales when I die.
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yep, those are manacles for sure. Probably late 1800's at the earliest, judging by the locking mechanisms, but more than likely early 1900's to 1930's if I were to guess. Those are in pretty nice shape. Be careful cleaning or otherwise, as that would destroy the heritage of them.
Maybe someone in the family was a constable or deputy way back when.
Don't let them go, unless you do find a good home for them (museum). If you find they belonged to a family member, that makes them even more valuable!!!
Awesome find!!!
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I'm told my g-g-g grandfather was the county's first "county judge". That is substantiated in county government records and local newspaper articles.....grandmother has a picture of him on her living wall. That is the closest I can tie any family to law or government. Maybe they cuffed the cow to milk it - I don't know. I kinda hate to wonder with the history here.
I haven't said a word to her about those cuffs. I'm afraid she may worry about something in the past. A person her age deserves no worry.
I plan to let them hang in my garage as they have since I found them last year.
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Thanks Oily, it sure turns gardening into an architectural adventure. Keep us posted as you find other stuff.
JIS
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Found these on ebay, looks like your cuffs, Rascal!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Bean-Cobb-Handcuffs-Circa-1899-/260967755177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc2e3eda9
Now I'm finding myself wanting some of these different types of antique handcuffs, to put with my billy club/slap jack collection. I have a little interest in this stuff, due to my occupation for the last 17 years....lol.
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Found these on ebay, looks like your cuffs, Rascal!!
Surely do. Thanks for sharing. I'm unable to find any stampings on mine, but again they are out of the dirt without any cleaning at all other than compressed air.
Any suggestions on cleaning them in a way that doesn't demoralize them? I don't want a set of shiney cuffs, I just would like to see the rust gone so maybe I can find markings I'm not seeing otherwise.
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I would say Evapo-Rust would be the way to go. Very gentle to iron, but is kind of stinky and messy once it has sat a while. You can usually find it at Harbor Freight, or some auto parts stores.
I would think anything else would be too harsh to use.
Maybe a good hot water/soap wash and scrub with a scotchbrite pad then an oil soak to start off, if you don't want to invest in Evapo-Rust.
I have a friend that will clean up tools, then give them a good soak in used motor oil. Then he lays the item out on cardboard on a nice sunny day after a wipe down. Seems to impart a nice, grayish/blue color to the metal after a few hours in the sun. He makes sure to turn items over so all of the metal gets a gentle "tan".
Your mileage may vary.
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For me, I like to scrub down iron relics with hot soapy water and either a green pad or very fine steel wool.
Then dry.
Then give them a couple coats of linseed oil, wiping off the excess before it dries.
Overnight, old cast iron turns pitch black and just looks beautiful for years and years. Not too shiny, not too dull. Rich and very nice looking.
yours Scott
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If I was a guessing man, without researching, I'd say I found a wagon or carriage frame and spindles in the garden....errr I mean buried scrapyard....over the weekend.
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A view of where the seat would have mounted?
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and a closeup of the spindle
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The "small stuff" found over the last week.
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Sure looks like it, I see a axle spindle.....
Not a seat, rather the plate the front axle turns on ....
Seems to be missing a few planks tho.....
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Can you decipher that name better? **kin. Might lead us to some answers.
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With those 3 blade things and a v shaped thing it looks more like some sort of horse drawn implament to me. I have the slightest clue what ime talking about thoe, thats just my thoughts.
Very cool, I wish my backyard was as cool as yours :(
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I am saying it was a medium farm wagon, the spindles are too heavy for a buggy or spring wagon. The rings, went around the wooden wheel hubs. That plate I believe tied the tongue to its side braces. The thimbles or bearing that went inside the hub, are in the last pic with the rings, look like sections of pipe The shovel and hoe shaped irons are just that, from an early cultivator. The long straps were bracing on the front axle and bolster, which the box sat on. The little ladder looking affair was attached to the end of the bolster, the proper name for them is stake. The ring on the top was for tying down heavy loads or canvas. The big "V" shaped iron is the "hound" for the rear axle which tied the bracing to the center beam called a reach, which tied the front and rear axles together. Most of that steel is actually iron, and even when buried in the ground doesnt rust very much, I have dug out spindles and still un screwed the axle nut with the first turn of the wrench. Keep all those iron pieces together, as different companies used different size spindles and thimbles.
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The name on the plate appears to be Bekin. In Omaha is the Bekin Moving and Storage company. In business since the 1890s, they utilized horse drawn wagons to move peoples goods. I would say that this is possibly the remains of one of their early horse drawn moving vans. The Bekins building is still in Omaha, and the company is still going, still in the family.
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The shovel and hoe shaped irons are just that, from an early cultivator.
I knew I was on to something.
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Can you decipher that name better? **kin. Might lead us to some answers.
The best I can figure, not having cleaned it, is B or R or P as the first letter then and EKIN
I am saying it was a medium farm wagon, the spindles are too heavy for a buggy or spring wagon. The rings, went around the wooden wheel hubs. That plate I believe tied the tongue to its side braces. The thimbles or bearing that went inside the hub, are in the last pic with the rings, look like sections of pipe The shovel and hoe shaped irons are just that, from an early cultivator. The long straps were bracing on the front axle and bolster, which the box sat on. The little ladder looking affair was attached to the end of the bolster, the proper name for them is stake. The ring on the top was for tying down heavy loads or canvas. The big "V" shaped iron is the "hound" for the rear axle which tied the bracing to the center beam called a reach, which tied the front and rear axles together. Most of that steel is actually iron, and even when buried in the ground doesnt rust very much, I have dug out spindles and still un screwed the axle nut with the first turn of the wrench. Keep all those iron pieces together, as different companies used different size spindles and thimbles.
Thanks so much! You explained several things for me. I had thimbles figured for some sort of oil field equipment - looked liked swelled pipe to me. There have been several wells drilled on the property over the years; with one remaining. The hound had me researching old plows :)
It amazes me that you know all that - and sounds like you took more time typing than thinking about it. Must be nice :)
I will keep them together, although I'm not sure what it is that I'll do with them. Doesn't seem right to make a redneck firewood trailer out of them...if you know what I mean.
I hope to spend time soon with a metal detector in that area. So far the things found have come to the surface or were found with the squeal of the belt on the rear tine. Will not do it here, but I can't say enough for a belt drive tool.
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Yep, two axle spindles, and in the last picture, two boxes to accept the spindles from the wheels and hub bands.
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With all the discoveries recently I decided to take a slow stroll this morning in the wood line around the area where I cleared to have my garden. The next couple of post are pictures of my findings. You have no idea the restraint required on my part to go get a shovel and axe instead of checking fluids and starting an engine.
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After tree cutting, digging, and root cutting; we have this.
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AND I believe either more parts to the same wagon or parts to another wagon.
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Hmm, a seeder?
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You got a planter for sure, if it ever had a box on top it may have been for corn, but that square hole looks big enough to plant potatos, was steered by hand, and probably had a single horse pulling it, heckuva neat find, would have had big wooden handles like a walking plow. The other two spindles are the rear axle to that wagon, most likely. I got a theory here, when I was a kid, wagons like those early moving vans were often used for storage sheds out the back door of the repair shops/blacksmith shops. Later on there would be old panel vans on blocks doing the same thing. I am thinking they found this old wood wheeled moving van, parked it behind the shop or barn, and nature and gravity took its toll, or there could have been a fire. The hammer heads could possibly tossed into the van due to broken handles, to be fixed later, later never came. Are there any old photographs from the 30's or earlier taken there on the place?
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Somewhat similar planter, dozens of different companies probably made them, these were garden size, not for field work, one step beyond planting a garden with just a hoe. Be a good candidate for using the Old Tools.
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Somewhat similar planter, dozens of different companies probably made them, these were garden size, not for field work, one step beyond planting a garden with just a hoe. Be a good candidate for using the Old Tools.
Very nice, John. I'd like to put that guy to work tomorrow :)
I got a theory here, when I was a kid, wagons like those early moving vans were often used for storage sheds out the back door of the repair shops/blacksmith shops. Later on there would be old panel vans on blocks doing the same thing. I am thinking they found this old wood wheeled moving van, parked it behind the shop or barn, and nature and gravity took its toll, or there could have been a fire. The hammer heads could possibly tossed into the van due to broken handles, to be fixed later, later never came. Are there any old photographs from the 30's or earlier taken there on the place?
Very few photographs exist that we can find, and those that exist are from the front elevation of the two houses, and wouldn't expose any area even close to where I"m finding things. My 88 year old gma has stated there was a barn "back behind the smokehouse and outhouse". She also has told me stories in the past of riding to school on a wagon - she says she would sit on top of the cotton on the way to the cotton gin - hitchhiking of sorts with her daddy to get to school. The school was just next door to the cotton gin. I've been unable to speak to her as of yet regarding this find. She can't at this point be clear about exactly where the barn was, only that it was "torn down" at some point by some contractor because Wisteria vines had taken it nearly to the ground.
My guess, without speaking with her, is that the wagon I've found was the same wagon she's told me stories of riding to school on, but I hope to learn more over the next few days. I'm assuming the seeder/planter was a worker here on the farm (it was a cotton farm), and I'm hoping her looking at it might resurrect some memories.
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I had a weekend devoted to gardening and the yard. I was lucky enough to find an old cotton scale weight that will pair up well with the scale found at the shop. I also found (with the jar of my teeth) a fairly large post vice that appears to have good days remaining. It looks like it may survive it's subsoil days carrying away only a bent handle.
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Pictures of the post vice - a little wire brushing exposed "Columbia".
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stampings
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Jaw size
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bent handle view
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We really do need a special YOU SUCK! award for garden dig ups. I nominate OilyRascal for the first recipient!
What a great leg vise!
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Never mind that, I want to know what the heck kind of seeds he is planting in the garden....
The rusted nails sure aren't working for me...
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He was dubbed "Garden and Yard Rustfinder Extraordinaire!" some time ago.
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He was dubbed "Garden and Yard Rustfinder Extraordinaire!" some time ago.
Humbly and proudly accepted!
Never mind that, I want to know what the heck kind of seeds he is planting in the garden....
Since you asked - and in no particular order. carrots, ice burg lettuce, spinach, collards, Radish, Snow Peas, Purple Hull Peas, Kentucky Wonder Bush beans, Peaches N Cream Corn, G90 Corn, red onions, Georgia Vidalia, Texas Sweet, Better Boy/Park Whopper/ Roma/Brandley County tomatoes, turnips, crooked neck squash, black beauty squash, straight 8 cucumbers, charleston watermelon, Cantelope, Honeydew melon, pototoes, strawberries, and.....man it seems like I'm leaving something out.
EDIT - add red/green/yellow/black bell peppers, banana pepper, jalapeno, red pepper, and the wife's spice isle
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Turnips?
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Yep, Turnips. I eat the greens fresh like I would collards, and can them sometimes mixed with Mustard greens or collards, but many people like the turnip bulbs themselves both cooked and uncooked.
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Yep, Turnips. I eat the greens fresh like I would collards, and can them sometimes mixed with Mustard greens or collards, but many people like the turnip bulbs themselves both cooked and uncooked.
Braised young turnips are hard to beat.
1lb young turnips, diced
1 1/2 oz butter
1 tbsp chopped parsley
1/4 pint stock
1 tsp sugar
Caramelize the butter and sugar, add the stock, turnips, and parsley, and simmer until tender.
You can also cook turnips (or rutabagas) until soft, and mash them like potatoes. (That's how some people made it through the Irish potato famine in the 1840s.)
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Nice vice! Small one, but it sure looks usable. It even has the notches for the pipe clamp attachments! Think those are down there somewhere too?
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I've scratched my head long enough on this piece I've found in the garden and I'm ready to ask for help. Does anybody recognize this copper(?) part/knob?
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/CIMG2484.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/CIMG2485.jpg)
Nice vice! Small one, but it sure looks usable. It even has the notches for the pipe clamp attachments! Think those are down there somewhere too?
Mac - I have no idea what those "clamp attachments" may look like. I may have already found them and they're in the pile of small iron down the hill. If you could assist me in knowing what they look like I'd love to get them back to their rightful home (assuming I've already found or do find them). Many thanks!
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I've scratched my head long enough on this piece I've found in the garden and I'm ready to ask for help. Does anybody recognize this copper(?) part/knob?
It's a top for a harness hame.
http://www.mydrafthorse.com/cfwebstore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=346 (http://www.mydrafthorse.com/cfwebstore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=346)\
http://www.mydrafthorse.com/cfwebstore/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=42 (http://www.mydrafthorse.com/cfwebstore/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=42)
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Well I Be. Thanks, Bus!
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Well I Be. Thanks, Bus!
Now find the other one -- these came in pairs.
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I couldn't find a picture I could directly link to, but I found one on ebay that has some. They are in the 6th picture
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item4ab2c8794e&item=320827062606&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=mw8z8i8uclKuhR6WA5uanhUd42s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
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I couldn't find a picture I could directly link to, but I found one on ebay that has some. They are in the 6th picture
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item4ab2c8794e&item=320827062606&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=mw8z8i8uclKuhR6WA5uanhUd42s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Thank you much, Mac53.
Now find the other one -- these came in pairs.
I'm all over it :)
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You keep pulling stuff out of the garden and your going to end up with a duck pond instead
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You keep pulling stuff out of the garden and your going to end up with a duck pond instead
I've been given information as to where the "tool shed" was located on the property relative to the barn (I found the pier/footings for it) and a 150+ year old "line" red oak. They called them "line" trees because they were on the property line and were left uncut for that reason. The tool shed was about 10' from the line tree due north of the barn (on the barn side of the tree).
It seems a lot of what I'm finding (excluding wagon and seeder) was either in the the tool shed or beside it. The wagon was found on the SE side of where the barn was, and the seeder on the W side of the barn....likely sitting right beside the barn and never moved. The spindles (those swelled pipe looking things) and post vise, and most all the other smaller items, were found about 40' away where the tool shed would have been.
I did finally get my hands on a metal detector. I'm still reading about it before I go straight out and frustrate myself with a bunch of old nails and tiny tin particles. I suspect I have a good chance of finding some other things worth having......that is if I didn't dozer stuff down the hill. When I first moved here I cut, both by saw and with sidewinder, a bunch of brush that had grown up. I left the stumps, trees, limbs, and such for a year. The next spring I came in and "scraped" all that with a dozer (not grading just clearing stumps and such), then put PTO rototiller through it and started calling it a yard and garden area. That is a lot of heavy equipment rolling over something that should have been just at the surface. Having said that, I'm still pulling stuff out of the ground and most of it in reasonable shape.
You keep pulling stuff out of the garden and your going to end up with a duck pond instead
A POND! That's a lovely idea, but I borrowed that dozer from an uncle praying the whole time a roller, or something else, wouldn't go out.....and I know first hand how expensive big toys, err I mean big tools, are to maintain when using.
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I was going to mention hanging up some of those fine collectibles you have been unearthing. But it seems the walls of the shop are kinda full already. It may seem that you never know what is going to come out of the ground next. On my fathers other farm, all we would dig out were bits of harness, and lots and lots of baling wire, the previous owner dropped wire wherever he was. Lots of it, I lost count of the times I got my feet tangled up and went down as a kid. Good luck with the metal detector, they are amazing, as well as frustrating.
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No iron today
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/CIMG2598.jpg)
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Any luck with that metal detector? Or did the "Au" setting, and the big box of treasure that followed, stun you into silence?
Great story, by the way. The only things I've found in my garden are nails and a old, spent copper 12 gauge shell.
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Any luck with that metal detector? Or did the "Au" setting, and the big box of treasure that followed, stun you into silence?
Great story, by the way. The only things I've found in my garden are nails and a old, spent copper 12 gauge shell.
No Sir, no silence! I simply have prioritized the "treasure hunt" down - below a number of other projects I have going on.
RE: shotgun shell - it was sure enough Copper and not Brass? Was it a shotgun shell made of paper not plastics?
More to come on the treasure hunt.
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A few of the recent iron finds on the property.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/CIMG4026.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/CIMG4027.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/CIMG4028.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/CIMG4029.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/CIMG4030.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/CIMG4031.jpg)
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The finds just keep on coming, thats pretty cool.
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You don't usually get that part with the wrench LOL...
You do realise tho, that 1000 years in the future, you will have taken away some poor archeologists job...
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I wonder what the iron content of that soil is? The snap hook, I was thining harness, but a loop like that says rope. Guess there some collars that used rope reinforcements. I wonder what ticked off the user of the plane, to toss it out back? I bet Scott can come up with name and rank on it. That wrench device, that is a puzzlement. Looks familiar, but not.
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That's the remains of a clevis wrench.
(http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/plantshepherdplus/DSC_0066-1.jpg)
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=1182.msg10436#msg10436 (http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=1182.msg10436#msg10436)
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Is there anybody here that would share a lesson on what a person would do with a "clevis wrench". I realize I'm showing my age..errrrr...I mean maturity level.
That's the remains of a clevis wrench.
Thanks!
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Read here- http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=1182.msg10436#msg10436 (http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=1182.msg10436#msg10436)
"Single/double trees are attached to horse/mule implements by a clevis. Some companies used their implement wrenches as the clevis pin. The pin would go through the implement beam and be there if you needed a wrench. Here are 3 clevises with their wrench pins that I photographed on John Tabor's (TOOL TALK Johns48B) display trailer before he died."
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The reason for the multiple holes in some models is: to set the height of the drawbar of the pulled implement, (plow), so the animals are pulling it at the correct heigth, not angling up or down, if pulled down it would cause the plow or cultivator to dig in too much. Taller mules, higher setting.
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The plane looks to be an ohio o4.
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The plane looks to be an ohio o4.
Thank you! It is marked "No. 04".
EDIT: With your hint - I did find a McIntosh & Heather No. 4 that appears correct with a couple of minor exceptions.
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Two more "finds" on the property today. The first, was found on a 40 acre tract we call "
Ed's Pete's place". There was a time when the last remaining slave family lived in a house on the property there. The property, being the only tract not completely encapsulated into the estate, only touches at a corner with the rest and sits alone most of the time. We have had issues in the past with "dumping". It was in my inspection around the dump pile that I found this.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_183216__zps6af39d01.jpg)
The second I found as I sat my gun and climbing stand on the ground inspecting a tree to climb. Right there, at my feet it was. I will leave it at that and a "whats it" for now.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_183297__zps4576898e.jpg)
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Oily has more than one garden! Nice two man saw, another great wall hanger. That chunk of iron now, first glance I thought it was the top of a busted up anvil. But no, the sticks look too big, so its a tool, looking for an eye for a hammer head. No, those look like sprocket teeth, rough but even cut. Now is that a cut in the top there? Two pieces and it swivels? Part of an early oil well pump? Piece of a saw mill feed? Come on, tell!
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Wow!! your property got history..
"40 acre tract we call "Ed's Pete's place". There was a time when the last remaining slave family lived in a house on the property there. The property, being the only tract not completely encapsulated into the estate,"
HOW BIG IS THE ESTATE? How many Tracts?
So what is it? did you dig it out? Clean it? measure it? Weigh it?
Could that be a large star wheel, rotating on a mount? (like those rollers that breakup roads, or compress trash heaps.)
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John was very close. It is a rock drilling bit, and the style is known as a "roller cone". Most used in these parts had tungsten carbide inserts. It would have been used to drill an oil well, and would have originally looked like the attached.
HOW BIG IS THE ESTATE? How many Tracts?
did you dig it out? Clean it? measure it? Weigh it?
Could that be a large star wheel, rotating on a mount? (like those rollers that breakup roads, or compress trash heaps.)
It is now right at 200 acres of the original 1200. I've not done anything more than take the picture as of now. Its a good ways into the woods on FOOT. Ever carried an 8" rock drilling bit?
Oily has more than one garden!
:-) I assure you the ONE I have is all I can handle.
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Thank you Rascal, about what size is it?
I thought it looked over 12" dia. on your close-up photo..
you got a lot of treasure hunting territory to cover..
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Oh man, we needed a different picture! I know those drills from hanging around oil rigs, a lot of them, when I was a kid.
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If the hardware is on the other end of the saw, like it is at the near end?
They're worth more than the saw blade.
There were several grades of upgrade hardware/handle attachment parts. The better ones could swing over and lock and then swing back and lock too. Most people just kept the hardware that came with the saw. Usually cheap stamped non adjustable parts.
But a serious sawyer knew the better handles and adjustable angles would save hours of labor, maybe days time before the end of any given month, and worth the extra.
That looks like a 6'+ blade?
I didn't think those dinky sticks you got in Texas needed anything like that? heehehhe
yours Scott
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That harness hames (copper knob) reminded me of a thing I saw awhile back. A guy hand made himself a walking stick and had put a brass "hames" knob on the top of it, Looked real nice Here is a link to some harness hames. http://www.chimacumtack.com/horseharnesshames.html
I would like to try a walking stick with a brass knob.
Mel
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If the hardware is on the other end of the saw, like it is at the near end?
They're worth more than the saw blade.
There were several grades of upgrade hardware/handle attachment parts. The better ones could swing over and lock and then swing back and lock too. Most people just kept the hardware that came with the saw. Usually cheap stamped non adjustable parts.
But a serious sawyer knew the better handles and adjustable angles would save hours of labor, maybe days time before the end of any given month, and worth the extra.
That looks like a 6'+ blade?
I didn't think those dinky sticks you got in Texas needed anything like that? heehehhe
yours Scott
It is a 6' blade with both ends having the attachment hardware for the handles. A few pictures of the "sticks" in my yard. The line oak I do not believe I could cut with this 6' saw.
This beech is very near to where I found the saw.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/846471584_photobucket_186994__zps1db152ed.jpg)
The oak is located at the woods edge of my groomed yard.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/846471584_photobucket_187002__zps488d51c1.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/846471584_photobucket_186998__zpsb995c5f6.jpg)
Pictures of the hardware
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/846471584_photobucket_187004__zps632d9f4e.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/846471584_photobucket_187005__zpsd6d8eaed.jpg)
That harness hames (copper knob) reminded me of a thing I saw awhile back. A guy hand made himself a walking stick and had put a brass "hames" knob on the top of it, Looked real nice Here is a link to some harness hames. http://www.chimacumtack.com/horseharnesshames.html
I would like to try a walking stick with a brass knob.
Mel
I like the idea, Mel.
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Here is link to a walking stick like the one I saw.http://www.brazos-walking-sticks.com/twisted-oak-hame-top-walking-cane/ with your wood carving skills it should be no problem,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/then when some one asks,,Where did you get that cool walking stick? you can say "Fresh out of the garden" or if they ask,,,,What you been doing? you can say "Polishing my knob"
;o) Mel
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Today was a dig into an old barn on the property. I had sworn off entering it until I could sure it up, as there is significant rot/decay and a huge risk of collapse. While not directly out of the dirt, the following were found in a barn on the property.
I'm guessing a "Sander's Type"
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201316_.jpg)
A hame?
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201318_.jpg)
big 'ole fork
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201319_.jpg)
Makers marks are worn from the tag - anybody have a clue?
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201320_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201321_.jpg)
Soap Box Dirby Time
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201323_.jpg)
Air compressor?
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201332_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201333_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201334_.jpg)
2 reel mowers - one of which is marked Craftsman
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201335_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201336_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201337_.jpg)
A couple of hand saws
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201338_.jpg)
Cant hook?
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201339_.jpg)
I'm guessing part of a water well - but only a guess based on rope tied to one end
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201340_.jpg)
Would you call this a "log dog"?
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201341_.jpg)
I have NO CLUE - diameter is roughly 2-1/2"
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201342_.jpg)
A blower of some sort - Imma say probably more to do with the yard or home.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201347_.jpg)
Singer
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201348_.jpg)
Dunlap
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201350_.jpg)
Ice tongs
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_201351_.jpg)
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The Blower thing is a bees smoker with bellows used to put smoke into the bee hives to clear out the bees before gathering the honey.
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More treasures, glad the barn didn't fall down. I have never seen brass hinges on ice tongs, they must have been fancy ones in their day. The little home brew air compressor, is using a refrigeration compressor possibly from an early deep freeze. I can remember some running with an electric motor and v belt on the end of the chest. Now the tank on that compressor is another story. That is a WWII Stainless Steel tank. They were spun, very expensive to build, and used on US Bombers for nitrogen or some such. I heard that they were tested when new, at close to 9,000PSI or so. That wrap on the tank is original too. Back 40 years ago every gas station was using one as an air bubble for flat tires. I have looked for one for years. Pair of wooden hames, with chain, possibly tug lines for horse harness. Can remember ever seeing a 3 wheeled lawn mower, they were trying every design possible there at the beginning. The log dogs go by a lot of names, but can tell you that set was forged. I can't tell about the sewing machine from the pic, is that a standard of a heavy leather working machine? How many more truck loads of iron is going to surface in your backyard?
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Thanks yall for the insight.
That wrap on the tank is original too. Back 40 years ago every gas station was using one as an air bubble for flat tires. I have looked for one for years. I can't tell about the sewing machine from the pic, is that a standard of a heavy leather working machine? How many more truck loads of iron is going to surface in your backyard?
John - spin off into a PM and help me understand better what it is you're seeking here. I'm just not clear.
I believe those sewing machines were just standard run of the mill machines.......my grandmothers. I rescued them from the loft area and put them in her garage. She was pleased to clean on them and offer them to my aunts as keepsakes.
Well - I hauled off a TRAILER load of metals today from the property here......but believe me when I say I'm a pack rat and it was truly scrap/crap. I'm just about to run out of *obvious* places to find things...the heavy hitters are gone...although just today cleaning up huge stack of old tin I find a wagon wheel hidden between the layers......amazingly still intact with most of the wood in good shape.
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A view of the wagon wheel found. The misc. metal ring shaped pieces found on the property suddenly make more sense after studying the wheel.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202038_.jpg)
A couple of pulley blocks - I'n not clear if they had a common use on the farm. I guess I would suspect hay into the loft area.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202039_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202040_.jpg)
Meat saw, and one I will put to work (and as luck would have it that is a Thorsen wrench hanging to the right)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202041_.jpg)
Single tree - I'd appreciate any thoughts on it's use (traditional use or dressing your harvest). I'm not clear on the lines of delineation (if there were two versions, or a new found use), but I know a "single tree" is commonly used in these parts to hang your kill and dress it.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202042_.jpg)
And this thing - I haven't a clue. It has a W or M in a circle stamped on it, along with some numbers I can't make out without cleaning.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202043_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202044_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202045_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202042_.jpg)
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14 spokes marks that wheel as an artillery wheel. Keep digging!
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Ahh, so nice to peruse pictures after a hard day. The single tree is a part of the hitch, the part attached to the horse by the tug lines, which run from the collar, all the way back behind the back legs, and to the item pulled by the center ring, (missing here), and attached to the load. Think of that center ring as the drawbar you want to hitch things to. Single and double trees can be built up for a multi horse hitch. Sometimes wagons and carts were pulled without a single or double tree. By hooking to the center ring, even pressure was put on the tug lines when turning. That could be an artillery wheel, but weren't they usually bolted thru the fellies? Good looking hub and most of the spokes look fine, fellies need some assist before it goes back in service. The two pulley blocks used together with a length of rope are a block and tackle. Prime muscle multiplier before winches. Finding that Thorsen wrench is just karma!
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Here is today's find.....fresh out of the old greenhouse. I suppose BOTH sides of my family had their issues putting tools up. These were at least found inside a box........not that it helped. The box was found closed, but appeared to have been run over at some point.
Note the differences in the level of plating loss among them. They're having a bath as we speak - I'll loop back around with better pics of the tools.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202621_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202626_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202628_.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_202630_.jpg)
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Found in the soil of our garden a couple of weeks ago using the breaking plow. It is marked "Leetonia" over "Made In USA" and "8LB."
I'm not finding a lot of information on Leetonia as a company. I am finding a Leetonia Ohio, and suspect there is some connection there although I can not confirm. I am finding some Leetonia mining tools. Information and pointers always appreciated.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/846471584_photobucket_222317_.jpg)
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Leetonia tool company, but they were recently bought...
http://www.lfitools.com/
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Wow! What a catalog. It looks like the product line is the same as it was 100+ years ago. I'll bet that it great quality at a fair price. Looks like you found a really good hammer Oily.
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Absolutely one of the more interesting modern product catalogs I've seen. Appreciate the info/link, Rusty!
Is it just me, or does this hammer seem out of place relative to the rest of the stuff found here? Please look over the rusty box full of mech. tools in this context - they were found near the greenhouse and were likely left there full box, forgotten, and grown over.
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>found near the greenhouse ...
Just as an aside, the pile of rusted tools with the blackened large rust flakes looks quite a lot like tools I have seen salvaged from mill fires.....
Could just be aciditic soil or something, I suppose...
Any signs there was a small incinerator or burning barrel near the greenhouse?
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OR, Your hammer head pattern is what is called a Drill hammer used to hand drill (two people, one holding, one striking!) in stone, usually for shot holes. No doubt many drill hammers were use as an ordinary sledge on a regular basis.
Graeme
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>found near the greenhouse ...
Just as an aside, the pile of rusted tools with the blackened large rust flakes looks quite a lot like tools I have seen salvaged from mill fires.....
Could just be aciditic soil or something, I suppose...
Any signs there was a small incinerator or burning barrel near the greenhouse?
OK - so the greenhouse is nearer to my grandmother than me. There *was* a burning barrel over there in that proximity (within 20ft.). I hauled it off in the last year and bought a shredder after she caught the grass on fire while inside for a nap. It is also probably noteworthy that the greenhouse was for tomato production in it's day. I believe tomatoes are fairly acidic....not sure about the plants or environment around them when enclosed. Where I found the box would have been *inside* the the greenhouse as it originally stood. 1/2 of the 100' span was abandoned many many years ago - it was located in the abandoned half.........along with a 50's gravely, horizontal wood splitter, very old air compressor, and a rotary plow for the gravely.
OR, Your hammer head pattern is what is called a Drill hammer used to hand drill (two people, one holding, one striking!) in stone, usually for shot holes. No doubt many drill hammers were use as an ordinary sledge on a regular basis.
Graeme
Thank you, Graeme. I will now look to further educate myself on drill hammers. I'm sure that will be fun to google on and filter. It certainly makes more sense in the context of the mining tools I was finding in research. I'm not sure why it would be here. Any sort of rock (outside some sandstone) is few and far between around here. Maybe my family purchased it, mistakenly or not, as a sledge.
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OR, Your hammer head pattern is what is called a Drill hammer used to hand drill (two people, one holding, one striking!) in stone, usually for shot holes. No doubt many drill hammers were use as an ordinary sledge on a regular basis.
Graeme
It looks too slender for a drill hammer. My impression of drill hammers is that they are compact and short for their weight. I'd call it a single jack, as opposed to the double jack we think of as the standard sledge hammer -- the ones with the full octagon faces. I have a 3# single, a six pounder on a long handle, and a 12# monster. All three are much more slender than my 4# drill hammer.
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I got to thinking about the 8# hammer. Sledge is not as precise a word as we may think. After a fruitless search of the internet, I picked up a 1950 Stanley tool catalog. The Stanley made hammer of this pattern is found under Stanley Atha heavy hammers and sledges, STRIKING AND DRILLING HAMMERS, and is labled "Nevada or Long Pattern. You could get them from 4 to16 pounds. Hand Drilling or Stone Cutters Hammers are a separate section on the same page. The next page lists Blacksmiths Sledges, in 8 to 20 pounds, and these have the full octagon faces like the engineer's hammer.
So, it could be a drilling hammer. I'd be willing to bet, though, that it was used by Oily's people for splitting firewood and banging things that needed heavy banging rather than drilling. It's the same kind my grandfather use for splitting wood.
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I don't know if you're still searching or not but I really like this thread.
Slave tags - if you're not familiar with them already, you might want to. All sorts of value in those.
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oily check out WHITES METAL DETECTOR DFX 300, thats the one i have its great and goes deeper in the ground a little Spencey but well worth it you will get hooked on metal detecting like i have good fun and never know what you will find what i like the most is finding old silver coins i bet theres all kinds of coins in your yard i am jealous
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Thanks, Leach! I had a go at "detecting" with one I had borrowed from family and found myself completely frustrated with the exercise. It's no surprise money/quality matters here.
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I found some wrenching steel again today while playing in the soil. This found while digging pier footings for the new home.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/20140503_090923_zps7d149aac.jpg) (http://s1154.photobucket.com/user/alphinde/media/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/20140503_090923_zps7d149aac.jpg.html)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/20140503_090927_zpsbdca6ad4.jpg) (http://s1154.photobucket.com/user/alphinde/media/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/20140503_090927_zpsbdca6ad4.jpg.html)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p534/alphinde/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/20140503_090944_zpsf08aae04.jpg) (http://s1154.photobucket.com/user/alphinde/media/Fresh%20Out%20of%20the%20Garden/20140503_090944_zpsf08aae04.jpg.html)
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Keep digging, the rest of it may be down there! Funny how things turn up in the darndest places.
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Yeah, keep digging - your gonna hit the mother lode. There may be a whole toolbox full of tools down there!
If you sell vegetables from that garden, maybe you can label them "Iron Enriched."
Chilly
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I got to come dig in your yard. Maybe I will find some gold coins or something.
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Keep digging. I know there is a wrench nut in your garden somewhere...
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Vinegar is a great rust (and paint and…) remover; inexpensive and reuseable. Flush well with water, 'cause it's acid, when satisfied. Only things it's ever harmed for me were Damascus treadle sewing machine (Monkey Ward's brand) needles — ate 'em completely up. I left them in too long, I know (3 days).
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I can't help but think of Noel while reading this thread. He had secretly modified my profile signature and dubbed me "Garden and Yard Rustfinder Extraordinaire!"
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I can't help but think of Noel while reading this thread. He had secretly modified my profile signature and dubbed me "Garden and Yard Rustfinder Extraordinaire!"
:grin:
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The r only rusty tool that has come out of the ground lately is a 12 in. Adjustable by Williams,,(superadjustable). And is thin and stuck tighter than my neighbor Emmets old Ford truck. I keep looking though. I have thoroughly enjoyed posts like this.