Tool Talk

Wrench Forum => Wrench Forum => Topic started by: rustcollector on August 25, 2013, 12:06:39 PM

Title: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 25, 2013, 12:06:39 PM: Well I am 99.99% sure he does not have the correct wrench, I have to wondet ig thid Vance guy is even correct. If the wrench and the book are right, I have about 10 of these identical marked 9N wrenches that I'll take $25 each for.
Item number is 111151223628 on ebay.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: mvwcnews on August 25, 2013, 01:05:35 PM: A couple of weeks ago I had a visit with an antiques shop owner, and the conversation turned to sales literature, auction listings etc. and the ways that buyers get suckered. In my opinion, that auction listing is full of "weasel words" that gives the seller an out..

If you do an "image search" for "Newhouse Wrench" in bing or google, that wrench does not turn up in the "best matches." You'll find the "wolf trap wrench" and a malleable iron wrench with NEWHOUSE cast in.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: jimwrench on August 25, 2013, 01:31:06 PM: Seller messed up and got one picture too clear. Seems to be a N9 orphan and very common.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: Bus on August 25, 2013, 02:21:59 PM: The only Newhouse trap wrench I know of is the one below. trap collectors have been running wanted ads for years trying to obtain one. I have never seen an example in all the wrenches I have handled.

Picture is from
http://trapanswers.blogspot.com/ (http://trapanswers.blogspot.com/) with the following caption:
"A Newhouse wolf trap combination tool, used as a hammer, wrench, and spring compressor; it's also used for making adjustments to the trap. Another rare piece, if you happen to have one, they are worth over $1000."

Also found this description in a 1908 Hunter-Trader-Trapper magazine"
"Newhouse Wolf Trap Drag and Wrench These drags are very convenient to fasten to traps They will either securely hold the animal or make a trail that is easily followed Drag made of wrought iron furnished with strong S Hook to fasten to trap chain Price 25 cents each Wrench is of malleable iron With a pair a trapper can set a No 4 or 4 Newhouse wolf trap very easily Has small slot in end for bending the dog The flat surface near one end will serve as a hammer Has also a long slot in middle for slinging on carrying strap Price 25 cents per pair One Drag sent postpaid for One new subscriber One pair Wrenches sent postpaid for One new subscriber Newhouse Fox Trap Drag"

The wrench on ebay can be found marked "M58" or "N9", as far as I know they are both orphans. I can't imagine how a small (5-3/4" long) wrench like this would be used on a wolf trap but I could be wrong.

Rustcollector: I have several of each so if you sell you for $25 each I will sell you ten more for $5 each. I also have one unmarked example.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/trap28wa.jpg)
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 25, 2013, 03:40:43 PM: That's the only wrench that I know of too, Bus. I once sold a early 190? Onieda catalog with the wrench listed in it. $1.50 per dozen. Be nice to have a dozen now.

This idiot seller and I exchanged a couple emails with him telling me that this Vance guy was the expert, not me. Sorry, I don't have to be an expert to know that that actual wrench he is trying to scam people on has nothing to do with traps. I finally gave up on the seller doing the right thing, and reported the item last night, but it seems last I checked that ebay hasn't done anything about it. I hope everybody else will harass this idiot too.

I have gotten so many of these M58's, N9's and unmarked similar ones that I have actually just started scrapping them. Seems you can't buy a box lot of wrenches without getting some variant of the wrench. I can't see them ever truthfully being worth more than scrap metal.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 25, 2013, 03:42:49 PM: Last time an idiot tried this, I posted a wrench like it at some ridiculous price and told everybody that the other wrench was a scam. It was taken down in less than a few hours after that. I may have to do it again.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rusty on August 25, 2013, 04:06:03 PM: Don't get it.

The catalog he is referring to , and shows in the photo says the wrench is stamped S. Newhouse" right in the description.

But the wrench he is showing in the picture (both sides) isn't stamped....

Yeash

This appears to be his second try, the last one , from pennsylvanis listed 'for a friend' didn't sell at the $249 reserve....

*duh*

Stray bit - There is at least one brass reproduction of the wolf trap wrench ....

PS: If you want ot get distracted for 2 hours...: http://archive.org/details/trappersguide00newh
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 25, 2013, 06:07:59 PM: The one his so called friend tried had to be taken down for an error in the listing.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: jimwrench on August 27, 2013, 11:07:08 AM: Asked seller why his wrench marked N9 rather than S Newhouse. No response. He is up to 13 bids and $153.49 At least only the high bidder will get scammed.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 27, 2013, 11:16:58 AM: reported twice to ebay, they have done nothing. Blatant scam and they just stand by and watch it happen.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: mikeswrenches on August 27, 2013, 01:48:08 PM: Scam or not, feebay still collects a Final Value Fee. In other words THEY DON'T CARE. For them it's only about the money.

Mike
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: Carl Wagner on August 27, 2013, 07:40:11 PM: Some things never cease to amaze me. I'm going to copy this listing exactly and go pick up the 10 or so I see at every flea market. Some people....
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: Carl Wagner on August 27, 2013, 07:42:14 PM: BTW....There is at least 3 of that same wrench currently listed on ebay.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: RWalters on August 27, 2013, 08:43:15 PM: To be charitable to the seller, and I must be in a charitable mood tonight, he appears to be a generalist selling everything from a cast iron doorstop to an album cover autographed by Conway Twitty. So he's not likely to be an expert on anything he sells. That said, the wrench illustration in the guide by Vance is not captioned (more like a page filler) and appears to be at least two pages away from the line about the Newhouse wrench, so if he's calling it a Newhouse wrench based on the picture, that's a stretch, particularly as it takes about two minutes on Google to see what a real Newhouse wrench looks like. That doesn't explain his unwillingness to accept accurate information about his listing. On a number of occasions I have messaged ebay sellers about items they have misidentified or stated they couldn't identify and when I've gotten responses they have been appreciative. As to whether it's a scam or he's just stubborn, Napoleon said it best, "Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence." Plus he has a 14 day money back return policy, so if the high bidder gets their wrench and finds out it's not really a Newhouse wrench, I think they'll be ok. Apparently, I'm feeling chatty as well as charitable tonight......
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 27, 2013, 09:08:54 PM: To me, this guy is just outright stealing from some unknowing people. He has been told that it is wrong and insists on leaving it up. Bad business practice if you ask me. I'll try to run an informative listing tomorrow to see what happens.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: Carl Wagner on August 27, 2013, 10:23:00 PM: I msg him as well. Told him good luck but he was full of it. Looks like he Will be full of it with a couple Ben's in his paypal tho.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 28, 2013, 06:35:37 PM: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281158810579

Wonder how this will go over.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: CRTDI on August 28, 2013, 07:32:52 PM: Quote from: rustcollector on August 28, 2013, 06:35:37 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281158810579

Wonder how this will go over.

Maybe he'll get the message, or maybe not.

You seem to be pretty serious about old wrenches. I don't know much about them, but noticed your auction lots of farm wrenches.

One thing I observed is that they all have a similar shiny look to the finish. Are you using a type of preservative or perhaps just an oil coating?
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 28, 2013, 07:45:03 PM: Quote from: CRTDI on August 28, 2013, 07:32:52 PM
Quote from: rustcollector on August 28, 2013, 06:35:37 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281158810579

Wonder how this will go over.

You seem to be pretty serious about old wrenches. I don't know much about them, but noticed your auction lots of farm wrenches.

One thing I observed is that they all have a similar shiny look to the finish. Are you using a type of preservative or perhaps just an oil coating?

The groups I have listed are all from the same place. The owner had cleaned them. I would not and will not clean wrenches unless they are to the point where they will disappear if I don't. I like the old look so much more, and every speck of dirt, or ding in the wrench is part of that wrench's history. Once you take it off of it, it, and the history it represents are gone forever. I had to buy the group these came from though, they were just way to many extremely rare one not to do so.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rusty on August 28, 2013, 07:48:05 PM: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281158810579

ROFL!

hey...worth a shot....
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 28, 2013, 07:50:08 PM: Stupid listing won't come up in any searches I've tried so far though. Usually doesn't take this long to come up.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: CRTDI on August 28, 2013, 08:03:06 PM: The groups I have listed are all from the same place. The owner had cleaned them. I would not and will not clean wrenches unless they are to the point where they will disappear if I don't. I like the old look so much more, and every speck of dirt, or ding in the wrench is part of that wrench's history. Once you take it off of it, it, and the history it represents are gone forever. I had to buy the group these came from though, they were just way to many extremely rare one not to do so.
[/quote]

I have seen some wrenches or metal objects in museums before and they all have the same look like a preservative or coating was applied to stabilize the object from further deterioration. Was just wondering if maybe this or some other process is being used for everyday collectors of old wrenches.

Sounds like you might be in the "remove the dust and leave the rust" club.

I like 30's and 40's vintage Blackhawk socket sets, but these are usually chrome or cadmium plated, so I just lightly remove surface rust and protect with a light oil coat.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 28, 2013, 08:10:12 PM: Quote from: CRTDI on August 28, 2013, 08:03:06 PM

I have seen some wrenches or metal objects in museums before and they all have the same look like a preservative or coating was applied to stabilize the object from further deterioration. Was just wondering if maybe this or some other process is being used for everyday collectors of old wrenches.

Sounds like you might be in the "remove the dust and leave the rust" club.

I like 30's and 40's vintage Blackhawk socket sets, but these are usually chrome or cadmium plated, so I just lightly remove surface rust and protect with a light oil coat.

Yep, you have to do what is right for you. A lot will clean them all up, paint them and highlight the lettering. Fine for them, ugly to me. But it is their collection so they need to have it look the way they like it. I don't really see any right or wrong in any method, just the collectors own preference. No method really seems to affect the over all value, because there seems to be enough in all realms to keep the value there.

I wouldn't even know where to start with chrome stuff, not my area of interest. But thinking about it, I'd rather see the chrome stuff cleaned to a decent finish I guess.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: Carl Wagner on August 28, 2013, 10:05:45 PM: I wipe off the worst if the dirt. After that ill heat them on the srove and spray with WD40. I wipe THEM off and highlight the lettering. This is the finished product.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 29, 2013, 04:49:47 PM: Well, response has been better than I expected. 14 ebay messages, and every single one was so glad that I listed something to counter-act the original listing. 99 views at this point, and it's been less than 24 hours since I listed it. And yet, after all that being said, the idiot original seller still has his up, and looks like he is willing to STEAL over $300 from somebody.

It probably should not bother me this much, since the potential buyers are as stupid as the seller in not knowing exactly what they are buying.
But I look at it this way.....
If this buyer (or any in this same situation) gets taken advantage of, and finds out down the road that he was scammed, he is less likely to continue collecting and buying wrenches in the future. This hurts everybody that collects because the value of our wrenches will drop, and even though most of us are not going to sell, our kids or spouses will be selling our collections at some point, and that takes money out of their pockets.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on August 30, 2013, 04:57:42 PM: Update....

I actually physically called ebay to report it. We'll see what happens from there, but in the broken english they all speak, it seems like they see the problem now and WANT to look into it finally. Absolutely ridiculous that it needed to go that far, the seller should have more morals than that.

I feel like a hound dog on the trail of a rabbit, can't give up until the rabbit is dinner.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: amertrac on September 01, 2013, 07:51:02 AM: How can you doubt this gentleman, who has 100% rating also he said that an expert told him it was authentic.. bob w.
Title: Re: Who's correct?
Post by: rustcollector on September 01, 2013, 08:37:27 AM: “An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.”
Niels Bohr