Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Branson on February 08, 2013, 09:02:45 PM
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I just plopped down the first bid on the anvil of my current dreams. Gonna be watching it like a very hungry hawk!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230923792797?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649
Luckily, my cohort in crime has money to spend, 'cause I don't.
But who would have thought to see two of these anvils on eBay in three months time? I was greatly surprised.
Wish me luck.
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Well firstly let me say good luck Branson! So what is the story behind this anvil? What's this 'Mountain Howitzer' name all about?
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That is much smaller than what I was anticipating, interesting shape. A fellow could get real creative and copy it, but why if you can swing the real thing!
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Well firstly let me say good luck Branson! So what is the story behind this anvil? What's this 'Mountain Howitzer' name all about?
A friend and I are putting together a complete, working set of the tools used by the artificers who were assigned to mountain howitzer units during the Civil War. A mountain howitzer is a small, largely anti-personnel cannon that was originally designed to be taken apart and carried on pack animals. The reason for this was to enable horse artillery (in which all members moved on horseback) to move as quickly as cavalry, and also that cavalry could carry with them such a weapon. Speed of deployment was all.
Light artillery artificers were accompanied by a 1200 pound (unladen) battery wagon to carry long tools and spare parts, and a mobile or traveling forge both of which were drawn by six horse teams. These were highly mobile, but nowhere near able to travel as quickly as cavalry.
The first mountain howitzer was the model of 1839. In 1841, a series of changes were instituted in the gun carriage and in the tools carried. These were used throughout the Civil War and into the Indian Wars periods. Photos of mountain howitzers used and captured during the Civil War show both types of gun carriage.
All the tools, for both smithing and carpentry, were carried on pack animals. The forge and bellows itself folded up to fit in one of the boxes, another carried the tools and a special anvil. These amounted to a travelling shop for all maintenance and repair and farrier work, one that could move as fast as cavalry or mounted artillery.
We bought a set of period plans and dimensions of all the equipment, which we are building and acquiring. I've seen pictures of one surviving forge, and rather doubt that many, if any other of these survived. The pan was constructed of .10 thick sheet iron, and I imagine that in the ensuing years, simply burned out.
It's taken a years worth of research to find out exactly what the anvil looked like. The drawings made for the 1841 plans are different from the anvils as have been found, including the one in the photos of the known surviving kit.
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That is much smaller than what I was anticipating, interesting shape. A fellow could get real creative and copy it, but why if you can swing the real thing!
The cost of copying one of these is around $375 to $400. We were looking at this until the second eBay deal came along. Another sold in November of 2012, but we didn't recognize it for what it was until after the auction closed. Whether we win this one, or end up having to have one made, I look forward to working on it and seeing what it can do. During the 1850s onward, the Union Army supplied ready made horseshoes that could be fitted on such a small anvil. Maybe it can do more, though making as well as fitting a shoe would seem to be impractical. Some of the tools furnished, however, are tools for fabricating a horseshoe out of raw stock.
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It would take an enormous amount of grinding, but it looks like you could fake one out of a track anvil with the forged stake welded to the bottom.
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r u concerned about it being painted?
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r u concerned about it being painted?
Mildly concerned. You never know what could be hidden by paint, do you? I think that anything hidden by the paint won't matter that much -- at least I hope so.
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Thank you for the background information. Naive me, I couldn't figure out why a howitzer crew would ever have need of an anvil. Forgot about those pesky horseshoes that occasionally need to be replaced.
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>why a howitzer crew would ever have need of an anvil
I was trying to figure out why Union Pacific would need farriers this morning, till I saw the picture of the Chinese laborers hauling fill for a track grade in horse drawn carts. Easy to forget how side by side technology was up till fairly recently..
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Pawpaw Wilson was writing of a smith in the time of the Revolution when he left us too soon. There are references to the trade in his book that quite probably didn't change much in the century that followed. Dam good read along with information that holds today.
http://www.pawpawsforge.com/storyindex.htm
RIP Jim
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Well, we got it. It was a bloody bidding war, but getting an original cost only $5 more than having one reproduced. Luckily, my partner in crime has enough money to make it possible. I'm beginning to turn a stump into the stand pictured in the drawings. Not having a lathe hefty enough to swing a 12 inch diameter log, it's going to be all hand work with hand saws, drawknives, and planes and such.
The next thing on the list is the vise, which fits into the roughly 1/2 inch hardy hole.
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That sounds like no small feat. Any chance you could post a picture of what you're hoping to reproduce?
(and congrats on the win by the way)
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Well, we got it. It was a bloody bidding war, but getting an original cost only $5 more than having one reproduced. Luckily, my partner in crime has enough money to make it possible. I'm beginning to turn a stump into the stand pictured in the drawings. Not having a lathe hefty enough to swing a 12 inch diameter log, it's going to be all hand work with hand saws, drawknives, and planes and such.
The next thing on the list is the vise, which fits into the roughly 1/2 inch hardy hole.
Couple flanges & stubshafts, 4 rollerskate wheels & a chainsaw make a pretty handy emergency lathe.
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That sounds like no small feat. Any chance you could post a picture of what you're hoping to reproduce?
(and congrats on the win by the way)
Thanks for the congratulations. I have a couple of photos of an original, but they're too large to post here. I'll see if I can reduce them.
The base is 10 1/2 inches by 7 1/2 inches, tapers to full round at 5.7 inches, decreasing to 4.4 inches at the top, at a height of 18.7 inches.
The worst part is going to be rip sawing the log to 8 X 12 before beginning the taper so I can register the dimensions accurately. I can rough the billet out with broad hatchet and drawknife, and finish it off with plane and spokeshave. (and probably belt sander).
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Couple flanges & stubshafts, 4 rollerskate wheels & a chainsaw make a pretty handy emergency lathe.
Thanks, Aunt Phil. No chainsaw here, but the flanges and stub shafts come in handy!
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Glad you got that anvil, Branson!
What else are you missing to complete your setup?
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Glad you got that anvil, Branson!
What else are you missing to complete your setup?
The most difficult piece will be the vise that fits into the hardy hole. The attached picture is small, but should give an idea of what it looks like. The drawings also show the anvil on its stand.
What I know I'll have to find yet is the double-edged straight hoof knife, and a shingling hatchet that were part of the kit. I probably have most of the other tools. We have yet to build the forge pan and back, and the bellows, but the frame is mostly complete. There's a lot of hardware on the two forge boxes and the two carriage makers boxes, most of which we will have to reproduce ourselves. I picked up a proper straight pein riveting hammer last month on eBay, and have a US marked farriers hammer. Oh, we'll have to make the clinch block, but we've made one of these before.
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That little vise looks similar to a gunsmith's hand vise. One of the guys in our association forged one a while back. I'll see if I can find the article from the newsletter on it. It had the forging instructions with it. Could easily be adapted to make one of those little vises on a hardy shank. Just a thought.
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That little vise looks similar to a gunsmith's hand vise. One of the guys in our association forged one a while back. I'll see if I can find the article from the newsletter on it. It had the forging instructions with it. Could easily be adapted to make one of those little vises on a hardy shank. Just a thought.
This is exciting! I sure hope you can find the article -- it's exactly what I would like. This vise is very much like the gunsmith's or jeweler's hand vise.
I've wondered about this vise, and another small vise that were issued to artificers -- why? Gunsmithing isn't one of the trades included in the artificers' duties, but that seems to be the only utility for such small vises. Light artillery artificers were also issued a hand vise. A mystery.
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The anvil arrived a day early. It's seen some hard use, but pretty much cosmetic stuff. On the other hand, it's exactly, or nearly exactly, as drawn in the 1848 army drawings. The table rises slightly from the heel to the point where the horn begins. From that point, the horn tapers down. Now to get the paint off and see what's underneath. Might even be a maker's mark -- doubtful, since some time in its life people did a lot of cutting against the stake.
It's definitely an army issue from sometime between 1848 and 1865.
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Branson,
Looking at that drawing, I can see reference measurements on the little vise, although I cannot read them.
I can't quite make out the base, though. I'm running the steps through my head on what would be needed to forge one, but I think that base would be the obvious hardest part. To forge out the shank, and keep enough on there to forge out to make the pivot point for the other jaw, that would be the hardest, I think.
The rest of it, would seem to be a process of punching a square hole for the screw (I'm thinking use a carriage bolt in a square punched hole), round punched hole for the opposing side, and a hand forged wing-nut to tighten it.
The jaws would be a matter of upsetting and then splitting the parent stock, turning them out, and rolling them inward to form the wide jaws. Rivet the moving side into the base. Make a spring the same as a regular post vise, but on a much smaller scale...lol.
But that base has me stumped. It also looks to have a lip to hang slightly over each side of the anvil.
Of course, it would be tedious, to stay within the measurements, but could be done nonetheless.
I find the forging of tools like this fascinating. That's what got me started in blacksmithing....I wanted to learn about the process of forging tools by hand.
I can't wait to show a copy of this plan to some of the guys at the next conference. I know a few of them would really enjoy trying to make one of these vises. I'm considering making one to fit the hardy of my travel anvil, or a variation of it, to take to demonstrations.
Good stuff. Thank you for sharing it.
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Branson, Congratulations It's almost unbelievable that you now have an original army issue anvil! I will be looking forward to see how it cleans up and is mounted on the block.
Graeme
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Wouldn't the little vice have been either steel castings or a chilled iron castings?
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I'll see if I can get a better picture of the vise plans -- if my step-son can get close pics of the full size plans. As a quick reference, though, the jaws are 1.5 inches wide. Height from the table of the anvil to the top of the jaws is 6 in. The hardy is 1.5 in long by .5 square. The saddle spans the width of the table, which is 2.5 wide. The width of the saddle is given at .65 in, and the hardy hole measures 9/16 with my calipers. The legs of the jaws are .8 in X .7 in. The carriage bolt is .5 in by 4.5 in long.
Bob, the other fellow in this project, is confident he can machine the base. I would think the original shank would have been a separate piece, forge welded in place -- this is 1840s technology. What he is worried about are the jaws (.3 in where they meet). The "lip" on the saddle joint extends .5 in below the top of the table. I'd say it was designed to take more torque than the square hardy alone would take.
When we get it all together, I promise pictures. I'll be getting some live pics of the anvil to send to the guy who was going to make a repro since he asked, and he might add one of these to his line of old style anvils.
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Wouldn't the little vice have been either steel castings or a chilled iron castings?
Bob's under that impression, but I believe it would have been forged. Looking at the ubiquitous small "table vises" of this period, I have only found examples that were clearly forged. The original drawings came out in 1848 (Mexican American War), and are measured drawings of already existing tools.
I don't mind being mistaken, but this is how it looks to me. Heh, if I find an original, I can be more sure...
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Branson, I am the First Sargent of Walton's Battery, a mounted, Mountain Howitzer artillery unit based in North Alabama. We are horse drawn and I would like to correspond with you concerning your work on the Mountain Howitzer's Artificer's tools.
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> Branson, I am the First Sargent of Walton's Battery, a mounted, Mountain Howitzer artillery unit based in North Alabama. We are horse drawn and I would like to correspond with you concerning your work on the Mountain Howitzer's Artificer's tools.
I'd love to correspond! There aren't a lot of folks interested in this stuff. At this point I'm keeping my eyes open for a mounted artty group to reenact with. I've got about 13 years worth of research in my files and I'd love to share. One thing I can tell you right off is that the South still used mountain howitzers with the first style of carriage. I have photos, and I think I have a measured drawing of that carriage. I have downloaded the 1840 and 1850 Ordnance manuals.
There's vocabulary that has taken luck to translate, too. And explanations of why this or that was part of the tools and materials issued.
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Would love to correspond. You can contact me at en_herring@hotmail.com. I live at Mount Hope, Alabama 35651. Most of our unit is located near Moulton, 35650; Hartselle, 35640; and Decatur, 35601. We always try to make the reenactment at Selma in the Spring. Where are you located at? I can send photos of our unit in action.
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en-herring- I have to pick your replies out of the spam posts since guest posts aren't visible until a moderator sees them and approves them. This will cause a delay in letting others see your posts.
How about registering and posting an introduction in the Introduction Forum?
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Branson, Very interested in the mountain howitzer anvil description and pictures?? I think I have one that I've come across completely by accident, blacksmithing for over 30 years and always buying and trading blacksmith tools of anvils, the one I have looks exactly like the one sold on eBay, describing it as a mountain howitzer anvil.. Quite familiar with the Civil War Reenactors, had a retail shop and catalog that I sold to them for about 20 years plus. Thanks, Bob
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Branson, Very interested in the mountain howitzer anvil description and pictures?? I think I have one that I've come across completely by accident, blacksmithing for over 30 years and always buying and trading blacksmith tools of anvils, the one I have looks exactly like the one sold on eBay, describing it as a mountain howitzer anvil.. Quite familiar with the Civil War Reenactors, had a retail shop and catalog that I sold to them for about 20 years plus. Thanks, Bob
Bob, I've collected every photo and set of photos of this anvil I've come across. Mostly, the images I have are too large to post here (not to mention there are enough to bore the rest of us. Why don't you contact me directly at:
branson2@sonic.net
There seem to be two (at least) styles of these, an in one form or another they were issued from around 1840 to at least 1914.
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Branson:
Seeing this thread pop up again reminded me of some pics of one a fellow was showing to us on facebook in one of the blacksmithing groups. I saved them just to show you.
I'll resize them and post them here later this evening when I return home.
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Branson:
Seeing this thread pop up again reminded me of some pics of one a fellow was showing to us on facebook in one of the blacksmithing groups. I saved them just to show you.
I'll resize them and post them here later this evening when I return home.
I'll really look forward to these!
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Branson,
Pictures of this anvil showed up over on Iforgeiron.com , I thought they might interest you. They show the anvil storing in the base of the stand. Looks cool to me!
Hope this helps!